Veterans Advisory and Pensions Committees Bill

Debate between Rob Butler and Aaron Bell

2nd reading
Friday 24th February 2023 Commons Chamber

[Aaron Bell (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Con)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Aberconwy (Robin Millar) on bringing forward the Bill. Our veterans and their families have made an invaluable contribution to the security and freedoms of our nation. Broadly, only about a quarter of them are in receipt of a pension that entitles them to support from the veterans advisory and pensions committees as they exist. The Bill will broaden that out more widely to give them access to a better range of services to ensure that they are better looked after. It is our duty in this House to ensure that those who have served our country continue to receive the best possible care, particularly those who need extra support.

I echo my hon. Friend’s remarks about the armed forces parliamentary scheme, which it has been a privilege to take part in this year. There have been too many trips to mention, but I pay particular tribute to the Royal Marines, who hosted a bunch of us last week at Camp Viking in Norway. They are doing essential work to deter Putin from his aggression in the high north.

My hon. Friend also referred to yesterday’s trip to 22 Field Hospital at Pirbright. They dressed us up; everyone can see the evidence on the @22FieldHospital Twitter account. He made an excellent field medic and the hon. Member for Pontypridd (Alex Davies-Jones), who made a fabulous speech earlier, made a very fetching anaesthetist—I do not mean that she sent people to sleep; I would never say that.

[Rob Butler (Aylesbury) (Con)]

On the point not of sending anyone to sleep, but of the armed forces parliamentary scheme, there was also a trip two weeks ago to the Falkland Islands, in which my hon. Friend the Member for Aberconwy (Robin Millar) and I were fortunate to participate. It was a timely reminder of the sacrifices that were made 41 years ago, which are still palpable in the minds of all Falkland Islanders today. Does my hon. Friend agree that it is in testament to the veterans who fought then that we need to introduce measures such as those in the Bill?

[Aaron Bell]

I could not agree more. Through that scheme, we are incredibly lucky to have not only the trips week to week, but the opportunities to go to places such as the Falklands and Norway—there was a trip to Oman last week as well—to see soldiers serving in the garrisons now and to pay tribute to past service. Today, we remembered Ukraine with the minute’s silence and, if Avanti West Coast will allow me, I will be at a vigil in Newcastle-under-Lyme at 6 pm this evening with the people there who have done such good work to welcome Ukrainian refugees into our community. We should always remember the sacrifice of the past and the sacrifice of the present that is going on in Ukraine now.

Briefly, because I know that other hon. Members wish to speak, it would be remiss of me not to mention the Tri Services and Veterans Support Centre in Newcastle-under-Lyme, which does fabulous work in all the areas that hon. Members have spoken about, such as mental health, particularly preventing suicide, and homelessness for people at risk. It is currently engaged in fundraising to buy the building that it occupies. To support that endeavour, I have written to the Minister for Veterans’ Affairs; I have had a response but I would like further engagement with him or the Minister for Defence People, Veterans and Service Families about what more we can do to support it so that it can stay in that building and renovate it.

Approved Premises (Substance Testing) Bill

Debate between Rob Butler and Aaron Bell

3rd reading
Friday 21st January 2022 Commons Chamber

[Rob Butler]

My hon. Friend raises an important point. She is absolutely right that drugs are never the answer, and we need to make sure we tackle the blight that they bring. Thames Valley police, which covers the area of Aylesbury, has a very interesting programme of diversion. Diversion for young people does not mean letting people off the hook, but it does sometimes mean steering them towards help, rather than necessarily taking them to court as a first step. That can sometimes be a very valuable part of the process of helping young people make the right decisions ultimately, and that feeds into the approach that staff in approved premises will take towards people who are tested, if this Bill becomes law. I thank my hon. Friend for raising that point, and I will build on it a little when we get to the specifics of how it applies to this Bill.

Based on the context I have set out, this legislation is very much needed. Sadly, in recent years the number of deaths among residents in approved premises has increased, and many of those deaths are believed to be related to drugs. As I have highlighted previously, it is an unfortunate fact that patterns of drug misuse both in custody and in the community are changing for the worse. In recent years, psychoactive substances have become much more prevalent in the illicit economy in approved premises—indeed, a recent questionnaire of staff in approved premises suggested that they are now the primary substance of choice.

Psychoactive substances can be especially dangerous, not least because of the unpredictability of their effect. In some cases they appear to have almost no effect and perhaps leave the user just dozing slightly, but it can be much worse and they can be left in a virtually catatonic state. In other cases the use of psychoactive substances can result in convulsions, vomiting, the temporary loss of vision or speech, reduced levels of consciousness and anxiety.

It is more concerning still that the use of psychoactive substances can provoke extreme, volatile or unpredictable behaviour that can often be violent. That poses a serious risk not only to the person who has taken the substance but to people nearby. Members may have seen a recent television documentary that showed prisoners in jail who were thought to have taken psychoactive substances and who behaved as though they were animals: they were literally on the floor, howling and fighting extremely aggressively. It was profoundly disturbing to watch such scenes.

[Aaron Bell (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Con)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on getting the Bill to this stage—and further, we hope, later today. He is right to raise the problem with psychoactive substances and the risk of people turning violent or aggressive. Is there not a risk of a domino effect? If people are on the mend and clean in approved premises but then go into an unstable environment, that is more likely to put them back on the path that we are trying to get them off.

[Rob Butler]

My hon. Friend gets to the nub of the challenge we face, and I glad he has highlighted it. I express my appreciation for his work with a similar Bill on substance testing in prisons that he stewarded through the previous Session, inspired by our former colleague, the much-missed former Member for Chesham and Amersham, Dame Cheryl Gillan, about whom I shall say a little more later. He picked up the mantle and speaks with great expertise in this policy area.

--- Later in debate ---

[Rob Butler]

With the leave of the House, I would like to thank all those who have assisted me in getting the Bill this far. First, though, I must apologise that in the heat of the moment, I inadvertently misled the House when I suggested that it was my hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme (Aaron Bell) who stewarded the Prisons (Substance Testing) Act 2021 through the House on behalf of Dame Cheryl Gillan, when it was in fact my hon. Friend the Member for North West Durham (Mr Holden). I cannot think how I possibly mistook the two; I leave that to others.

[Aaron Bell]

I thank my hon. Friend for his generous apology. I suspect that as my hon. Friend the Member for North West Durham is five years younger than me, he may be getting an angry text from him, rather than me. [Laughter.] I understand that he has a similar problem with my hon. Friend the Member for North West Norfolk (James Wild): perhaps he could address that.

[Rob Butler]

I do indeed: it is my hon. Friend the Member for North West Norfolk who is often angry, because he is, I think, 10 years younger than I. I will move on, but I beg the indulgence of the House and apologise profusely for inadvertently misleading the House and Members.

First, I thank the Ministers in the Ministry of Justice. My right hon. Friend the Member for North West Hampshire (Kit Malthouse) has been alongside me throughout much of this process, but today, my hon. Friend the Member for Louth and Horncastle (Victoria Atkins) has picked up the mantle with her normal expertise on the brief. I am very grateful to her for stepping in today, and to both Ministers for their help, assistance and advice. I echo my hon. Friend’s words and extend my thanks to the Ministry of Justice civil servants whom she has just named. They have worked incredibly diligently on this Bill, devoting many hours of work to its progress, and have been a constant source of information, advice and—at times—just calm reassurance. I also thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, Mr Speaker, and the other Deputy Speakers for your guidance and for ensuring that there was always a firm hand on the tiller.

On the parliamentary side, my thanks go to the Chairman of the Bill Committee, my hon. Friend the Member for Banff and Buchan (David Duguid), and all the Members who served under his chairmanship. If I may beg the House’s indulgence, for his expert knowledge of procedure, his willingness to answer even the most basic questions, and his warm, reassuring approach to a new MP potentially overwhelmed by the complexities of legislation, I record especial thanks to the Clerk of Private Member’s Bills, who sits at the table today. This would not have been possible without him, so I am deeply grateful to Adam Mellows-Facer. If I have broken protocol by naming him, I apologise, but I hope that all will understand the circumstances of doing so.

I thank my Whip, my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Dorset and North Poole (Michael Tomlinson). I also thank the Whip in charge of private Member’s Bills, my hon. Friend the Member for Castle Point (Rebecca Harris) for her military-like precision and firm guidance, which right now extends to waving me to sit down. I will do so in 15 seconds after I finally, and most importantly, pay tribute to the staff working in approved premises, working alongside people at an incredibly sensitive moment in their lives. As the Minister has summed up so well, we owe a great deal of gratitude to them.

Approved Premises (Substance Testing) Bill

Debate between Rob Butler and Aaron Bell

2nd reading
Friday 29th October 2021 Commons Chamber

[Rob Butler]

That has been addressed recently through legislation to ensure that the appropriate Department can incorporate different types of psychoactive substances so that there does not need to be primary legislation on each and every occasion a new substance is named. It is very easy to tinker with one or two of the chemical elements, thereby taking them out of the scope of what is illegal and what is legal. Thankfully, that has been addressed, so it would apply to this proposed legislation as well, making sure that we were not always chasing our tails. I thank my hon. Friend for making that very important point.

[Aaron Bell (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Con)]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for promoting this Bill. It is clear that he speaks with great authority on the matter. From reading the notes and listening to him speak, it seems to me that the danger is not just to the people taking the drug. In the case of prescription medicine, residents who are trying to go straight are being bullied by residents who are trying to get the drugs off them. Could he set out how the testing regime he envisages would protect people who are desperately trying to be rehabilitated, go straight and become productive members of society again?

[Rob Butler]

My hon. Friend makes an interesting point. That can indeed be a risk, although having had conversations this week with the staff and management of approved premises, I have been reassured to learn that, for the most part, the staff look after any prescription medicines and issue them to residents at the appropriate time. Therefore, there is a little less concern than one might have thought about residents obtaining those drugs from others through distinctly unhelpful ways such as bullying. In fact, the current concerns seem to be rather more as I have described them—namely, people from outside obtaining substances legally and then sharing them illicitly, or, indeed, substances being obtained from overseas via the internet. My hon. Friend raises an important point and I know that the management of approved premises in Her Majesty’s Prison and Probation Service are keen to tackle it. They believe that they have already taken serious steps through their regime of handing out medication.

Let me turn to the reasons why it is preferable to test via urine. It is very clear that this will enable a wider range of substances to come under a testing regime. It will also, importantly, extend the time period in which testing can identify drug use. That is because some drugs are detectable for only 12 to 24 hours when using oral fluid, whereas when using urine, drugs such as heroin are detectable for up to five days.

The second aspect of my Bill aims to ensure that the Government understand the prevalence and nature of substance abuse in approved premises. It would allow HMPPS to use resident samples to test for the prevalence of various substances on an anonymised basis.