ISIL: Iraq and Syria

Richard Ottaway Excerpts

Thursday 16th October 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hammond]

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman. If he received a copy of my statement only a few minutes before I rose to deliver it—as far as I am concerned, it was delivered to him a good 45 minutes before I stood up—I shall investigate what happened and write to him. Although I am optimistic about the commitment being shown in Baghdad—he mentioned the optimism of my tone—I thought I was frankly rather realistic about the challenges that lie ahead, particularly the time scales. His remarks and questions suggest that he is looking for a degree of instant gratification in response to the international coalition’s engagement that, I am afraid, is unlikely to be delivered.

Let me go through the points that have been raised. The right hon. Gentleman is right to say that there was an important conference of chiefs of defence staff to discuss the operation of the coalition forces, and that President Obama convened a video conference. I am sure the right hon. Gentleman would not expect me to give the House a running commentary on the outcome of either of those discussions, but I can say that the conclusions of the read-outs I have seen were very much in line with what I have said this morning. The coalition intervention has stabilised the strategic picture, and ISIL is no longer making rapid advances, which we saw earlier in the summer. It has been forced into a defensive posture in many areas, and forced to change its tactics and resume the characteristics of a terrorist organisation, rather than operating as a conventional military force. The intervention of the coalition has had a significant impact, but, as I said, that in no way attempts to conceal the fact that there will of course be tactical ebb and flow. Towns will be taken and towns will be lost as the situation stabilises.

The key question, which the right hon. Gentleman correctly identifies, is the capability of the Iraqi security forces. We have always been clear that although airstrikes are an important component, they can never deliver victory against ISIL on their own. That victory will be dependent on boots on the ground, and in southern Iraq those boots must be provided by the Iraqi security forces. In the north the Kurdish peshmerga are doing a good job, and we will continue to support them with training and additional equipment. It is clear—I had this discussion with President Barzani on Monday evening—that the peshmerga will not operate very far outside the Kurdish region. They may be prepared to take part in limited operations in the north outside the Kurdish region, but they will not be operating in the south or west of Iraq.

We are dependent on rising to the challenge of rebuilding, restructuring, re-equipping and retraining the Iraqi security forces, after a period of years in which their capability was degraded by the blatant sectarianism of the Maliki Government, who appointed Shi’a officers, on the basis of tribal allegiance rather than military competence, to command posts that they were not necessarily suited for. There is a major job to be done, and we should be under no illusions about the technical challenge and political hurdles that Prime Minister al-Abadi will face—including resistance from his own Shi’a block in Parliament—to making the necessary changes. The reason for optimism is that the leaders at least understand that that has to be done, and that this is Iraq’s last chance to show that it can operate as a nation state.

The right hon. Gentleman asked about suggestions that 50% of ISF’s brigades were effectively undeployable and inoperable. That is an absolutely fair assessment, and I have heard higher assessments of the percentage of heavy equipment that has either been lost to ISIL or destroyed during fighting. He mentioned the role of the international coalition in Kobane, and I am pleased that the intensification of air strikes appears to have allowed the Kurdish resistance fighters in Kobane to retake some ground and consolidate their defence. Again, we should be under no illusion that we will be able to use coalition air power alone to save Kobane. We can support the forces on the ground, but it is that fight on the ground that will determine the outcome.

The right hon. Gentleman asked about training the Syrian moderate opposition, but I cannot give him detailed plans because the programme is still at an early stage. It is clear that the training will be done outside Syria in friendly regional countries, and that the forces to be trained will be paid on a regular basis from funding that the United States is providing. This will be a trained, disciplined and organised force returning to the fight in Syria under proper command and control.

The right hon. Gentleman detected what he thought was perhaps reticence on my part to talk about the role of Turkey, whose role in this battle against ISIL is indeed complex. Turkey has complex relationships with Iraq and Syria, and the presence of a large Kurdish population spanning the borders of Syria, Iraq, Iran and Turkey is a significant factor in how Turkey relates to this challenge. Turkey has made it clear that since the release of its hostages by ISIL, it is ready to engage with the coalition, but the exact form of that engagement must be sensitive to the historical context in which it sits, and to historical relationships between the Kurds and the Turks, the Kurds and the Iraqis, and the Iraqis and the Turks. To answer the right hon. Gentleman’s specific question, I spoke to my Turkish opposite number on Friday, following discussions earlier last week in the United States on the specific question of Turkey’s role in the coalition. The UK National Security Adviser is in Turkey today for further such discussions, and they are at the forefront of the coalition’s agenda as we take the debate forward.

Finally, let me respond to the right hon. Gentleman’s question about Sunni countries in the region and the regional powers. From a western perspective, we are looking at a Muslim region, and we are asking and expecting Muslim countries in the coalition to do more to lead this fight. I was in the Gulf on Tuesday and I detected a clear willingness on the part of the Gulf Arabs to commit to the fight and to address issues of funding flows, and much has already been done. Again, however, we must be sensitive to the historical and cultural context in which these questions sit. Prime Minister al-Abadi has to take a Shi’a majority in Parliament and a Shi’a majority population with him in the fight against ISIL. In working out how best to utilise the willingness of Sunni Arab countries to become engaged in this fight, he must ensure that he is respectful of the sensitivities of his own Shi’a population, and ensure that this is a fight that we can all deliver together, without trampling on historical sensitivities along the way.

[Sir Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con)]

I congratulate the Foreign Secretary on the tone and approach of his statement, but may I press him a little further on the role of Turkey? Will he verify the truth of rather astonishing reports that the Turks bombed Kurdish PKK camps in the last few days, rather than ISIL camps? Can he confirm that the Turks have said that they will not intervene on the ground in Syria unless the opposition is armed? He has spoken about further support for the moderate armed opposition, but will the further support that he says is under consideration include the supply of lethal equipment?

[Mr Hammond]

The UK’s position at the moment is that we will not supply lethal equipment to the Syrian armed opposition. We are supplying non-lethal equipment and we will provide training in due course. Although the discussion with Turkey about the role it will play is ongoing, I have not heard any conditionality proposed by the Turks around arming the Syrian opposition as a precondition for Turkish involvement on the ground. There have been discussions on various other issues, but I have not heard that one.

My right hon. Friend asked me about the reports in the media that Turkish forces have attacked PKK bases within Turkey. I, too, have read those reports. There is a historic pattern of conflict between Turkey and armed PKK locations. I cannot verify those particular reports, but it is important to emphasise that the reports relate to PKK positions in south-eastern Turkey rather than in Syria. I hope those responses are helpful to my right hon. Friend.