Republic of Belarus (Sanctions) (EU Exit) (Amendment) Regulations 2022

Debate between Rehman Chishti and John Baron

Monday 5th September 2022 General Committees

[Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con)]

I thank the Minister for introducing the instrument to the Committee, and I am sure that he will have no trouble getting it passed. Like many colleagues in this place, I have been banned from visiting Russia because of our apparently Russophobic approach and rhetoric. I wholeheartedly welcome the measures, but may I urge the Minister to go further? The bureaucracy in Belarus extends beyond 50 individuals. Given how active those individuals are in supporting Russia’s invasion, surely we can do more to target them and the bureaucracy more generally.

[Rehman Chishti]

I thank my hon. Friend for his remarks. I have a huge amount of respect for him and for his expertise in foreign affairs—he sat on the Foreign Affairs Committee. He is absolutely right that we must do everything we can to ensure that all levers possible are applied, across the board, to individuals contravening the legislation passed by this Parliament though their unacceptable behaviour in support of Putin’s illegal actions in Ukraine.

My hon. Friend will agree that the difference between us and those in Belarus and Russia is that we believe in democracy. Therefore, the sanctions that we impose in the United Kingdom have their legislation and criteria set through Parliament. We will use every lever possible to hold those individuals to account. We are making it very clear that we are looking at individuals in all sectors and areas where we feel that they are aiding and abetting Putin’s aggressive behaviour in Ukraine. I note his point about ensuring that the measures are continually monitored and reviewed to ensure that we catch the widest number of individuals who need to be held accountable.

The trade sanctions contained in this instrument include a ban on the export of dual-use goods and technology for all purposes and on the export of goods and technologies for critical industries. That includes high-end equipment such as microelectronics, marine navigation equipment, aircraft components, quantum computing components, and oil-refining goods and technology. That in part answers the point made by my hon. Friend on the widening of the criteria under which individuals can be held responsible for the unacceptable activity in Ukraine. That will place further constraints on Belarus’s military, industrial and technological capabilities and on refining petroleum, one of the country’s highest value exports. The measures include a ban on the export of luxury goods to Belarus and a ban on the import of iron and steel from the country.

Finally, the legislation introduces new sanctions on transport. It extends measures introduced in 2021 against aircraft, giving us the power to detain and deter registered Belarusian aircraft. It also introduces new shipping measures, prohibiting Belarusian ships from entering UK ports and introducing powers to detain and deregister ships. I commend the instrument to the Committee.

--- Later in debate ---

[Rehman Chishti]

I am grateful to members of the Committee for their contributions to today’s insightful and timely discussion and I will address the important questions that they have raised. I thank the Committee for its full support for these regulations. The House is united in agreeing that we must do everything we can to stand by the people of Ukraine. The United Kingdom Government at every level, supported by all political parties, took decisive military, economic and diplomatic action to support the people of Ukraine, and we will continue to do that.

I turn to hon. Members’ specific questions. I thank the Opposition spokesman for his constructive dialogue and support, and for raising the issues that need to be raised. We improve regulations and legislation only by engaging in discussion, interaction and reflection, and the process for dealing with the situation in Ukraine has been constructive throughout.

The hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth, my hon. Friend the Member for Basildon and Billericay, my right hon. Friend the Member for Maldon and the hon. Member for West Dunbartonshire mentioned the numbers. We must do more. We will absolutely do everything we can to support the people of Ukraine and ensure that those responsible for this unacceptable behaviour are brought to account in order to deter others from such unacceptable actions and deeds.

The figure of 50 was mentioned, but I want to set out the overall mapping, in terms of sanctions, that we have applied to Belarus. The hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth and others asked about that. On the designations and criteria that we have applied, under the Belarus regulations 108 individuals and 10 entities were designated pre-invasion. That comes back to the question asked by my right hon. Friend the Member for Maldon. He asked what we have done about the unacceptable behaviour and aggression, and the fraudulent elections in Belarus. What have we done to hold individuals to account—not now, with regard to the Ukraine situation and the Belarus Government aiding and abetting Putin’s illegal invasion, but what did we do then, and what have we been doing since? Some 108 individuals and 10 entities were designated pre-invasion, and an additional six entities were designated in response to the invasion, as they are significant to the regime. They include Alexander and Viktor Lukashenko. The United States has not designated 69 of those individuals, but we have.

The hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth says that we need to work with international partners. Absolutely, but the United States and United Kingdom have different legal criteria. Nobody in this House would say to me that we should do anything outside our legal criteria. We will do it in the right way, by applying our legal criteria.

The second set of designations come under the Magnitsky sanctions and the global human rights legislation. Eight individuals have been designated, including Alexander and Viktor Lukashenko, on human rights grounds. Only one of those is not designated by the US, although its designations are via its Belarus programmes, rather than the global human rights regime.

Then we come on to the Russia regulations. We now have a separate entity for Belarus, but from February, when we were looking at Ukraine, we were using the Russia regime. Under the Russia regulations, 47 individuals and seven entities were designated following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. Some 41 of those individuals are not sanctioned by the US, and the remaining six are. All those entities are sanctioned by the US. Five of the individuals sanctioned by the US and all seven entities are sanctioned under the Belarus programmes, rather than the Russia programme. The remaining individual is sanctioned under the Russia programme.

I have given that answer because I wanted colleagues in the House to know the different regimes that we have applied sanctions under.

[Mr Baron]

I do not for one moment question the Minister’s good intent. What he said there is absolutely spot on, but what is troubling some of us is that given the size of the Belarusian Government bureaucracy and the state generally in pursuing its aims, which we all condemn, 50, 100 or even 200 are probably not enough. If we are to send a strong message to Belarus and any other people aiding and abetting the invasion of Ukraine, we have to get tougher and perhaps be even quicker in our response. Will the Minister bear that in mind?

[Rehman Chishti]

Yes. I thank my officials for the note over here, but let me just answer that point. I am trying to multitask in reading, reflecting and answering; hopefully my lawyer’s training helps in that regard. I get the point raised by my hon. Friend. I think the officials get the point. We have to do everything we can. I have tried to give an overall picture with regard to the number of individuals, but his point is that looking at the scale and size of the country, we have to do everything we can to ensure that as many of those individuals who need to be held accountable are held accountable. I get that, and no doubt officials here get that, and it will be taken back and looked at. I will write to him specifically on that point with further details so that he gets the fullest answer.

I want to address another point raised by the hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth, about why we are replicating measures made on 28 April. Why are we doing it now? His point was with regard to the timing of the different regulations. The new measures are the latest in a co-ordinated package of measures that the UK has introduced in response to Belarus’s support for the Russian invasion. The point I made earlier was that we put a number of measures and designations into play prior to the invasion. The new criteria that we have put in place extend and broaden the group of individuals who can be held accountable for the unacceptable behaviour of aiding and abetting Putin’s financial actions, and supporting the aggression in Ukraine.

Since the invasion of Ukraine, we have launched a series of sanctions targeting Belarusian individuals and organisations who have aided and abetted this reckless aggression. We designated 47 Belarusian individuals and seven Belarusian entities under the Russia sanctions regime. We also introduced a 35 percentage points increase in duties on a range of products imported from Belarus. Those measures are in addition to the wide range of measures that we have already imposed on Belarus under our Belarus sanctions regime, which include sanctions on Lukashenko and members of his family, and on other individuals and entities.

With regard to the third point that the hon. Gentleman raised on the issue of steel, iron, aviation, space and goods, I will take that matter away and make sure that it is answered as fully as I can, to do justice to the answer, rather than reflecting on it now. I will make sure that he gets a full answer on that specific point.

European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill

Debate between Rehman Chishti and John Baron

2nd reading: House of Commons
Wednesday 1st February 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con)]

Ours is a representative democracy—in fact I would go so far as to say a great representative democracy. The reason why this place will, and should, support the article 50 Bill is that, before the referendum, we made a contract with the British people that this place would abide by the result. I ask all Members who are thinking of voting against Second Reading to give that due regard. It was a commitment made by the Government, and agreed to by many on the Opposition Benches.

I very much look forward to supporting article 50 tonight, and then, following negotiations of up to two years, the Prime Minister getting as good a deal as possible. If this place says that it is not a good deal, World Trade Organisation rules hold no fear for many of us on these Benches. No deal is better than a bad deal.

May I now focus on a couple of inconvenient truths? To those on the Labour Benches, I suggest that all the talk of parliamentary democracy and scrutiny is fine, but, to those who were here in 2008, I have to say that I do not remember too much scrutiny when the Government of the day passed the Lisbon treaty. It was done very quickly. In fact, the Prime Minister of the day was not even present in the debate. Therefore, for all the talk of parliamentary scrutiny, we sacrificed large chunks of our sovereignty that day, and it is a great shame that Labour Members are now suggesting that they are the guardians of parliamentary democracy, when they were pretty thin on the ground when it came to the Lisbon treaty.

[Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con)]

I pay tribute to all the work that my hon. Friend has done on the campaign. He talks about democracy. Some say that this electoral result was too close, but does he agree that, if Members of Parliament had won their parliamentary seats by one vote, not a single one of them would have turned the seat down? They would have come here and taken their seats. In the same way, they should accept this result because the public has now decided and we should enact this legislation.

[Mr Baron]

I very much agree with my hon. Friend. With a first-past-the-post system, it is very clear that one abides by the result.