Pakistan (UK Support)

Debate between Rehman Chishti and Jeremy Lefroy

Monday 26th January 2015 Commons Chamber

[Rehman Chishti]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. When individuals carry out these evil atrocities in the name of Islam or of religion, they undermine the wonderful, peaceful, tolerant Muslim community around the world and in our great country. I know that he does a brilliant job in building the great relationship between our two countries, and I know how much importance he ascribes to it. When I was in Pakistan in 2012, walking through Karachi, I was surprised to see that he was there at the same time.

I welcomed recent articles by Prince Turki al-Faisal of Saudi Arabia, the former Saudi ambassador to the United Kingdom and head of the Saudi intelligence service, who has suggested that we call ISIL—or Daesh, as it is called in Syria and Iraq—Fawash, which means “obscenity”. The organisation proclaims itself to be an “Islamic State” because it wants to be linked to Islam, but there is no such thing as an Islamic state. Let us not give those people any legitimacy. Let us call them what they are: terrorists and extremists who believe in an obscene ideology.

Pakistan is not alone in facing such horrific, brutal, evil atrocities carried out by terrorists, as we saw only a few weeks ago when gunmen attacked the office of Charlie Hebdo and a Jewish supermarket in Paris. In Belgium, police have foiled a plot to attack police, and in 2013 there was a brutal attack on a shopping mall in Kenya. Since 2003, more than 40,000 civilians and more than 6,000 security forces in Pakistan have been killed in the continual war on terror.

The former Foreign Secretary said in a speech in 2013:

“Muslim communities are bearing the brunt of terrorism worldwide, at the hands of people who espouse a distorted and violent extremist interpretation of a great and peaceful religion.”

Terrorist groups such as the Taliban claim to be Islamic, but that interpretation bears no resemblance to Islam, and is rejected by the overwhelming majority of Muslims around the world. The Koran teaches us to be tolerant of others and to live in peace. Chapter 5, verse 32 says that

“if any one killed a person, it would be as if he killed the whole of mankind; and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole of mankind”.

Recent events have shown us that our freedom of speech can never be threatened or destroyed through violence, and that there can be no justification for the causing of death or the use of violence. However, we also need to be tolerant and respectful of other people’s religious beliefs, whatever they may be. Faiths such as Christianity, Judaism, Sikhism, Hinduism, Baha’ism and Islam—to name just a few—are cherished by billions of people around the world. Rights come with responsibilities, and we need to be careful not to mock other people’s religions. Doing so can lead to intolerance, which feeds into the terrorist extremist agenda of wanting to divide communities and societies, and makes our society a less safe place for all.

Those are not my assertions, but the assertions of a great man with great intellect, wisdom and a passionate desire to serve humanity, which are there for all to see. I refer to Pope Francis, for whom I have great admiration and respect. He spoke about this very issue recently, saying that the right to liberty of expression came with the “obligation” to speak for “the common good”.

The United Kingdom has continued to stand shoulder to shoulder with those who are affected by terrorism, and has always been a strong friend and ally of Pakistan. The Prime Minister summed up our close relationship when he said

“in this battle the friends of Pakistan are friends of Britain; the enemies of Pakistan are enemies of Britain.”

After the Peshawar attack, the UK offered its assistance, and I know that the Department for International Development has collaborated in the provision of counselling for those who have been affected.

Many people in the Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province have become displaced and we should consider how best the UK and DFID can help in that region, in particular with the temporarily displaced persons. Pakistan has played a part in helping the international community tackle the threat of terrorism. There are many examples, including the capture of Ramzi Yousef, one of the perpetrators of the World Trade Centre bombing, and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, one of al-Qaeda’s most senior operatives, who was the mastermind behind 9/11 and the 1993 World Trade Centre bombing as well as the failed Bojinka and shoebomber plots.

[Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that one of the most important ways in which the UK Government, through DFID, can work together with the Government of Pakistan is through support for the education system, particularly in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and Punjab, where there is tremendous UK support for Pakistani schools?

[Rehman Chishti]

My hon. Friend is right, and as a member of the International Development Committee, he well knows that the UK has always supported Pakistan at difficult moments. On education and health, Pakistan is the largest recipient in terms of education, and he is right: if we want to give somebody hope, opportunity, aspiration and a life without being sucked into extremism or radicalisation, we must give them education. The UK has always supported that and will continue to support Pakistan in that respect.

At the forefront of the battle with terrorism, Pakistan faces several major challenges. With a porous border with Afghanistan, around 40,000 people make the crossing every day, putting pressure on security checks, especially at the two main crossings at Torkam and Chaman. I understand from discussions with Pakistan officials that they would appreciate assistance to enable them to monitor the border more effectively, including the provision of additional technology and intelligence gathering and sharing. Some other suggestions include technology such as biometric scanners, night goggles and GSM intelligence gathering. The UK currently provides a GSM tracking vehicle. I believe this vehicle was crucial in tracking those who were responsible for the terrorist attacks in Peshawar and is crucial in helping to destroy the terrorist networks and leaderships in Pakistan.

The UK has already assisted Pakistan in developing counter-terrorism capabilities through the counter- improvised explosive device programme, but IEDs continue to be a threat in the region. Only two weeks ago, an IED attack killed four security force personnel in Pakistan’s Lower Kurram.

Greater assistance is also required to help return the large number of refugees to Afghanistan. Since 2002, the UNHCR has facilitated the return of 3.8 million registered Afghans from Pakistan, but there are still almost 1.5 million registered refugees in the country, with unofficial figures suggesting the total could be more than 3.5 million—the largest protracted refugee population in the world.

Pakistan also needs international co-operation to tackle extremists groups who may operate from abroad. There are, for example, real concerns about some elements of the Balochistan Liberation Army—the BLA—who it is said are co-operating with extremists to enact violence in Pakistan. Hizb ut-Tahrir has openly attempted to recruit Pakistani military officers to revolt against the Pakistan army, and Pakistan needs assistance to tackle Hizb ut-Tahrir’s finances and supporters operating from outside the country.

The Peshawar attack on a school was also a direct assault on education and the country’s future generations. It was a reminder that there are still those who want to prevent children in Pakistan from learning. Seeking knowledge and education is, as many religious texts—Hadiths—make clear, an obligation on Muslims, both men and women. I know that the Government have continued to support Pakistan through aid, with 4 million primary school children benefiting and more than 20,000 classrooms being constructed.

Pakistan is still on the road to reform, and there is still much work to be done to improve its own institutions and create a more robust law and order system. This includes assistance with police capacity building, canine training in explosive detection, computer and mobile forensic labs, counter-IED jammers and body armour. The Peshawar attack was the worst terrorist attack Pakistan has suffered, and only through co-operation and collaboration, standing shoulder to shoulder with one of our key partners, with whom we share a long history, can terrorism be defeated.

With that, Mr Speaker, I thank you once again for giving me the chance to have this debate, and I look forward to hearing the Minister’s reply.

Freedom of Thought, Conscience and Religion

Debate between Rehman Chishti and Jeremy Lefroy

Thursday 1st May 2014 Commons Chamber

[Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con)]

It is a great honour to follow the speech of the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) and the most powerful speech of my hon. Friend the Member for The Wrekin (Mark Pritchard), who is not in his place. I also thank the hon. Member for Belfast East (Naomi Long) for initiating the debate.

Alongside extreme poverty, growing income inequality and climate change, I rate extremism in relation to freedom of thought, conscience and religion as one of the four most powerful threats to the world in the 21st century. In fact, it could be said that, in some places, extremism is the cause of one or two of the other threats. In the UK, as many speakers have said, we have a responsibility. We can see in our history the suffering caused by religious strife and persecution, as well as the benefits that freedom of speech and of religion can bring. I welcome the Foreign and Commonwealth Office making the promotion and protection of the right to freedom of religion or belief a key priority. I pay tribute to the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, to Baroness Warsi, to my right hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire (Alistair Burt), to the Minister and to Foreign Office staff for beginning to implement that critical priority.

The right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion and to change one’s religion, which is important, and the freedom to manifest it in teaching, practice, worship and observance, all of which are in article 18 of the universal declaration of human rights, are not options. They are a fundamental requirement of belonging to the family of nations. The universal declaration of human rights was put together following the horrors of the second world war. It is not some kind of optional extra. It is a foundation stone of a civilised and just world. Any state that does not uphold it or pretends to do so must be challenged and challenged again by the international community.

Pakistan has been referred to several times in the debate, and rightly so, but we should also refer to other countries. There is a measure of freedom of religion in Pakistan, because we do see churches and worshippers there, but there are countries where we do not see a single church or a single building of a faith other than the authorised one. We do not hear so much about those countries—Saudi Arabia, for example—simply because there is no freedom at all. Sometimes a little bit of freedom results in persecution, because there is a measure of a presence of one particular faith. We should bear that in mind as we highlight countries in this debate.

We should challenge countries not only on the basis of their people’s fundamental human rights, but because in the long term persecution will severely damage the countries themselves. In order to succeed in today’s world, countries need people who are encouraged to innovate, challenge, inquire and take risks. If they expect that but say that people must believe in God, or cannot believe in God, or can only follow a certain lifestyle, making them into criminals if they do not conform, they should not be surprised if those people take their talents elsewhere, if they have not already imprisoned or executed them.

Take my family origins as an example. I come from a Huguenot background. We were expelled from France more than 400 years ago because of our Protestant faith. Yet the Huguenots brought to Britain the seeds of the industrial revolution, which changed the face of this country for ever—the Courtauld family was perhaps the most prominent—and France lost several decades of economic development as a result. It would be simplistic to correlate the lack of human rights, including freedom of religion, with economic progress. The presence of abundant natural resources can give Governments the ability to buy such progress, but that approach is unsustainable in the long term. The best way to build a state that can stand the test of time is to build one that enables all its people to flourish, that includes and does not exclude, and that celebrates its diversity, rather than being afraid of it.

Of course, there is another side. Freedom of religion and belief also involves exercising that freedom, as with any freedom, with great responsibility. Incitement to violence or any other crime can never be excused by being covered in the cloak of religion. I reiterate the point my hon. Friend the Member for The Wrekin made about the importance of people of all faiths in this country standing up for such freedoms in countries from which their families might have originally come.

[Rehman Chishti]

I visited Saudi Arabia two years ago with the all-party group. As someone from a Muslim faith, I made it quite clear to its parliamentary Shura Council that it should allow people from the Christian community to build churches there, just as people from the Muslim community who come here from other countries can build mosques. It is only fair that people of other faiths in Saudi Arabia should be able to build their places of worship.

[Jeremy Lefroy]

My hon. Friend makes a powerful statement, and I absolutely agree.

As has already been pointed out, there is a global trend of increasing persecution of people of all religions and none. I want to make a few remarks about Tanzania, whose all-party group I chair. I also had the privilege of living there for 11 years. Tanzania has a secular constitution and has been noted for its religious freedom since independence in 1961. It has been a model of harmony, instituted by its first President, Mwalimu Julius Nyerere. Yet recently we have seen a disturbing rise in the incidence of religious attacks, particularly on Christians. That reflects the rise in extremist Islamist action in both the Sahel and further south in sub-Saharan Africa. We need to support Tanzania and other countries, such as Kenya, and indeed Nigeria, in their work to maintain freedom, peace and stability against all those who wish to destroy it.

In my constituency we have an organisation called the Dalit Freedom Network. We must also not forget those peoples who find their rights at risk because of the families and societies into which they were born. I commend all those who, sometimes at the cost of their freedom or their life, stand up for groups around the world who are persecuted not just because of their faith or their political views but simply because of who they were born to.

Queen Elizabeth I is believed to have said that she did not wish to make windows into men’s souls. A country that follows that maxim—that works for and protects all its people, whatever their beliefs, background or lifestyle—rather than waging war on minorities is much more likely to flourish than one that does not.

Assisted Suicide

Debate between Rehman Chishti and Jeremy Lefroy

Tuesday 27th March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that there are good examples of the community supporting the provision of palliative care? For example, in Medway, the Friends of the Wisdom Hospice raised more than £500,000 to support the excellent palliative care there. The community and the voluntary sector want palliative care, so we have to work with them to ensure that such excellent facilities carry on.

[Jeremy Lefroy]

I thank my hon. Friend and I entirely agree with him. In my constituency, we have the great work of Katharine House and, across Staffordshire, many other places, which I applaud.

Dying with dignity involves being treated as an individual—yes, having physical symptoms such as pain treated, but a lot more than that. Good palliative care is essential and we need to recognise that for the vast majority of patients, good palliative care—including the opportunity to express oneself as an individual and to retain control over the areas of life that one can have control of—will result in a desire for life rather than death.