Agriculture Bill (Fourth sitting)

Debate between Philip Dunne and Colin Clark

Thursday 25th October 2018 Public Bill Committees

[Mr Philip Dunne (Ludlow) (Con)]

Q Mr Burgess, you are very welcome. You are in an invidious position, if I may say so, in coming to this Committee, and I am very pleased that you have. In the light of what you just heard from Mr Hall, what confidence can the Committee and Scottish farmers, particularly those whose farms cross the border, have, given the lack of engagement by the Scottish Government? Absent what you just told us about the letter, which we get to see in your proposed amendment, what confidence can the Committee and farmers have that the Scottish Government will respond to the call from its farmers to have common standards with the rest of the UK?

George Burgess: Essentially, the Scottish standards and arrangements are not changing here; it is the ones on the other side of the border that will change. Under the powers in the Bill, as yet we do not know quite what they will change to. We know what the Scottish standards are, but we do not know quite what the English standards will look like. Any disparity would arise in that situation as a result of a change in England rather than a change in Scotland.

[Colin Clark]

Q In one of the pieces of evidence we heard today, Jack Ward of the British Growers Association said it would be a nightmare if we had four producer organisation schemes. That is not about cross-border farming or farms; that is about strawberry growers in Angus working with strawberry growers in Kent; and equally, potato growers in north-east Scotland operating with potato growers in Lincolnshire. We have spoken about common frameworks, but surely, for the sake of the unitary market of the UK, we must have an absolute, concrete commitment that we will not have market- altering divergence. Can you foresee a situation in which we had four producer organisations?

George Burgess: It is important to understand the way the producer organisation recognition system operates at the moment. This is a devolved area, but one in which all the Administrations, in our case through agency agreements, have chosen to delegate the function to the Rural Payments Agency. There is one body that does the work on behalf of all the Administrations. That system works well in a number of other areas that I am aware of. We are certainly not proposing that that should change. That it is devolved has been well recognised. There was a court case in recent years—a challenge to a Scottish-based producer organisation. Although the work was done by the RPA, the Scottish Ministers were ultimately in the frame.

We have absolutely no difficulty with a system of producer organisations. We do not quite see the need to have the provisions in the Bill, given the existing European provisions on producer organisations. All that we are suggesting through our amendments is that, in relation to Scotland, to mirror the existing position—nothing new—the powers should be with the Scottish Ministers. I would fully expect them to be delegated in turn to the Rural Payments Agency, as they are at present.