Parliamentary Reform

Peter Soulsby Excerpts

Thursday 3rd February 2011 Westminster Hall

[Caroline Lucas]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. Having been at the seminar, which was very useful, I completely agree with him that that work by the Procedure Committee has started. I want to make it clear that nothing that I say this afternoon is in any way critical of what the Procedure Committee is doing—it does fantastic work. As we know, just this week it published findings of an inquiry into the release of information by Ministers, with a set of recommendations with which I wholly concur. My point is that the amount of work that we are potentially talking about in terms of the reforms that we need cannot be tackled by the Procedure Committee alone, so I completely agree with the hon. Member for East Dunbartonshire (Jo Swinson) about considering a mechanism complementary to the Procedure Committee—something that would run alongside it but would have more capacity to deal with some of the wider issues that we are talking about.

[Sir Peter Soulsby (Leicester South) (Lab)]

I congratulate the hon. Lady on securing the debate. May I take this opportunity to apologise for the absence of the Chairman of the Procedure Committee, the right hon. Member for East Yorkshire (Mr Knight)? As the hon. Lady may know, he had all the symptoms of flu yesterday afternoon. For his sake and for ours, he has wisely gone home, but he asked me to stand in for him. As she will have noted, other members of the Procedure Committee are present, and the right hon. Gentleman asked me to respond at the end of the debate on behalf of the Committee.

[Caroline Lucas]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that clarification.

Let me say a little about some of the specific proposals that I would like us to consider, not in the expectation that all hon. Members will agree with them, but just to put some ideas out there about how things could be changed. One change could involve electronic voting. I know that there will be a sharp intake of breath as I say those words. I have looked back at previous times when we discussed the issue in the House, so I do not expect an easy ride on it, but this is a time when we could consider it again, not least because it has been estimated that £30,000 of salary could be saved every week because of the amount of time that MPs waste while waiting to cast votes. We are talking about an hour and a half or more extra because of the way we vote. To put it another way, if a vote takes about 15 minutes and if, in the previous Parliament, there were about 1,200 votes, that means that an MP with an 85% voting record would have spent 250 hours just queuing up to vote. Those are hours that taxpayers have paid for, and I argue that they could be better spent studying amendments, scrutinising Bills or helping constituents.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir Peter Soulsby (Leicester South) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to reply to this debate on behalf of the Procedure Committee. As the Minister has reminded Members, I do so because of the illness of the right hon. Member for East Yorkshire (Mr Knight), who is the Chair of our Select Committee but who had all the symptoms of flu last night. For his sake and for ours, it was felt best that he retired to his bed.

It is very evident, from the number of Members who have been in Westminster Hall for this debate today and the passion with which they have spoken, that a series of issues have been discussed that we undoubtedly need to take account of. The members of the Procedure Committee were here, along with a number of other Members, and I am sure that the other members of the Committee will correct me if I do anything other than express the views of the Committee. As I say, these are matters that we need to take account of and we will take account of them. We are very grateful to have had the opportunity to hear the debate.

I join others in congratulating the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline Lucas) on securing this timely debate. Any person who listened to the debate but was not actually in the room with us would be heartened by the fact that it was virtually impossible to tell which party Members were from as they contributed to the debate. It has been clear that we are united in our passion not only to restore the reputation of the House but to enhance its effectiveness in representing our constituents, in holding the Government to account and in scrutinising legislation.

I pay tribute, very briefly, to some of those who have paved the way in the past for this debate. The right hon. Member for Oldham West and Royton (Mr Meacher) spoke very passionately. It is worth reflecting on the fact that he currently chairs an important cross-party group, Parliament First, which paved the way for much of the agenda that we have talked about today. Back in 2003, the group published a short but very influential paper called “Parliament’s Last Chance”, which is still available in the House of Commons Library. In that paper, the group set out an agenda for improving scrutiny and accountability, for direct engagement with the public and, most important of all and fundamental to what we have discussed today, about how Parliament—particularly those of us in the Commons—can regain control over our own affairs and thereby enable ourselves to do our job properly.

I also pay tribute to another Member who is not able to be with us today, my hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham North (Mr Allen). He wrote a very useful pamphlet that has helped to set the agenda, called “The Last Prime Minister”. It was somewhat apocalyptic in its title but none the less influential in the agenda that it set out.

Of course I pay tribute, as other Members have done, to Tony Wright, the former Member for Cannock Chase. While many of the rest of us were despairing of what was happening around us during the expenses scandal, he saw the opportunity of that crisis to set out an agenda for reform, including proposing the establishment of the Reform of the House of Commons Committee, a number of whose members are here today. He also pressed an agenda on that Committee for a menu of items for reform that have enabled us—both the last Government and the present Government—to do much of what has been achieved of late.

We have seen the establishment of the election of our Speaker and of our Deputy Speakers, and even more significantly than those two changes we have seen the establishment of the election of Select Committee Chairs and a proper, transparent system for appointing membership, which has taken those appointments beyond the reach of the patronage of party and Whip. That has undoubtedly continued to enhance the reputation of the work of the Select Committees, and enabled them truly to speak on behalf of Members across the parties, in holding the Government and others to account.

The Procedure Committee is very aware that it needs to take forward the changes that have already been made. In her introduction, the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion talked about us having a long way to go. We have achieved a lot, but she is entirely right. The Modernisation Committee is well aware that we have a long way to go, and knows that it picks up the responsibility of the Wright Committee to drive forward change and reform.

We already have on our agenda a number of matters that have come from the Wright report, and we have already looked at some of the issues raised by right hon. and hon. Members during this debate, for example the proposed explanatory statements on amendments. We have looked at the use of hand-held devices, and at issues raised by the Wright Committee that were not picked up by the Government of the time, such as the recommendation to have lay members on the Standards and Privileges Committee. Important as those issues are, a much more significant issue on our agenda is one that many Members have mentioned: the hours we sit, the days when we sit, and what we do when we are here.

A number of Members have touched on the difficulty of drawing up a job description for a Member of Parliament, and undoubtedly there is much to be discussed about the balance between what we do in our constituencies and what we do here at Westminster. However, all of us on the Procedure Committee are aware that there is a range of important issues that we need to discuss, concerning the options for the days when we meet, the times we meet, the places where we meet—whether the main Chamber or here in Westminster Hall—and, most important of all, the business that we conduct.

In taking forward our agenda—this was very much pressed on us by the House—the Committee issued just yesterday a timely report on ministerial statements. The report looks at how the House can ensure that it is the first to hear the detail of important Government statements, instead of them being released by the press, with us following far behind trying to pick up the pieces, and responding to the debate rather than setting it. Fundamental to that, and to the work of the Procedure Committee, is the principle that Parliament should be at the centre of the national debate.

I was pleased that the Deputy Leader of the House spoke again of the reforming zeal possessed by him and his colleague, the Leader of the House, whom I have been delighted to see with us throughout this debate, and I press on him once more the vital importance of the recommendation in the Wright Committee’s report, which we as the Procedure Committee will pick up, to take forward the House business committee. I think that we are all enormously impressed by the work that is being done by the Backbench Business Committee under the chairmanship of my hon. Friend the Member for North East Derbyshire (Natascha Engel), and by the difference that it has made to our ability to be effective in our jobs as parliamentarians and Members of the House of Commons. However, I think that we are all aware that although the Government have a right to get their business through the House, the House has a responsibility to ensure that that business is properly scrutinised. At the heart of guaranteeing that is the way in which time is allocated and the way in which we as Members of Parliament have the opportunity to ensure that business is properly scrutinised, whether it is in its early pre-legislative scrutiny stages or is passing formally through the various stages in the House. Part of that, and beyond the establishment of a House business committee, are questions about how Public Bill Committees are able to scrutinise legislation.

On behalf of the Select Committee, I want to give a reassurance that we are aware that the issue of how we restore the ability of the House to do its job properly is vital. I also reassure those present that the members of the Procedure Committee have been listening to this debate, even those who are not physically present, and that we recognise our responsibility to respond effectively to the concerns that have been raised and the suggestions that have been made, and to do so in a timely fashion.

Question put and agreed to.