Copyright (Rights and Remuneration of Musicians, etc.) Bill

Debate between Pete Wishart and Mike Wood

Friday 3rd December 2021 Commons Chamber

[Pete Wishart]

I am grateful for the opportunity to resume my speech—this almost feels like a second episode, perhaps of “EastEnders” or “Doctor Who”, with a drum roll but without all the excitement and cliffhangers—and I have a couple of little points to make. I shall be brief, as I know that several hon. Members wish to contribute to the debate.

I did not want to give the impression that I had any difficulty with the traditional model for contractual arrangements with artists. I think that there is a lot in the rights-ownership model, which has sustained the music industry since its inception and has made a huge success of it. It only created difficulties in the early noughties with the advent of digitisation. Music was probably the first discipline that began to experience difficulties with digitisation, and we know the problems that consumed the industry. Its very survival was under threat from pirates and companies such as Napster and so on.

We put in the infrastructure that helped to deal with that, and music has been a massive success since then. Global revenues hit £16.2 billion last year—the highest since 2002. This is the sixth consecutive year of growth. Between 2015 and 2019, revenues enjoyed by labels have grown by more than £200 million. People are making obscene amounts of money again, but not the people making the music.

[Mike Wood (Dudley South) (Con)]

The hon. Gentleman spoke about his own illustrious music recording career earlier. Does he recognise that someone who sold 1 million copies of a single in the 1990s typically saw their single reach the top 25 singles of the year, whereas about 1,700 different artists had more than 1 million streams last year? He is right that there is a lot of streaming, but it is being shared so much more widely, so is it not inevitable that many people will receive less?

[Pete Wishart]

People will receive less because they are paid such pitiful, insignificant sums every time one of their pieces of music is played on one of the streaming services. On iTunes, it is 0.003p per play for the artist. Apple Music is a little more generous, with 0.006p. Those are the sorts of difficulties that current artists are having to experience in this whole streaming environment.

The Ivors Academy and the Musicians’ Union have told us how bad the situation is for musicians, so we know how bad it is. They have said that 82% of professional musicians have made £200 per year less from streaming. This is totally different from the 1990s, when someone who did sell massive amounts of singles got real rewards. We are coming into the Christmas season, and someone who is lucky enough to have had a Christmas hit in the 1970s or 1980s—there have not been so many recently—will hit the jackpot, because their song will get played again and again and go right to the top of the steaming charts. All these historic artists will once again earn a huge bonus this Christmas season, and all power to them, because these are fantastic songs that we all love, but that gives just an indication of how difficult it is for modern artists to try to make some money.

Government Policy on the Proceedings of the House

Debate between Pete Wishart and Mike Wood

Tuesday 10th October 2017 Commons Chamber

[Pete Wishart]

I think we have heard enough from the right hon. Gentleman. He took up about 25 minutes of the available time so I shall move on, if he does not mind.

We on the SNP Benches have a little experience of minority government: we are in our second parliamentary session as a minority Government. We had a minority Government with just two Members more than the second party, and now we are just two short of a majority. In each case we have tended to try to function as a minority Government, respecting the view that we do not have a majority and trying to work in consensus and partnership with other parties. The exercise we are doing around the budget is an example of how things can be done in a minority Parliament.

I mentioned fracking: it is important that we come back to the Scottish Parliament on that with another view. On other issues on which we are defeated, we will consult further and try to address the concerns. That is how we govern as a minority Government. I am happy to talk things through with the Leader of the House to help her to understand better. If she wants to come to the SNP, we can give her some lessons about running a minority Government. If she is having difficulty with it, which it seems she is, she can come and have a chat with us. I will not break the confidence of our meeting, as she did to me at the most recent business questions. She can come and have a chat and perhaps we can talk through some of the issues.

[Mike Wood (Dudley South) (Con)]

As we have heard, it has been 12 months since the Scottish Government were defeated, and they are still at the consultation stage, whereas in the four weeks since the House expressed a view on the two motions in question, the Government have announced a policy change on the level of next year’s tuition fees, and they have announced different terms of reference for the public pay review bodies. The Government have done exactly what the hon. Gentleman is asking of them in terms of considering and reviewing, and I am sure that those matters will come back to the House.

[Pete Wishart]

I do not think the hon. Gentleman has been listening. I am not making any criticism of the Government—[Hon. Members: “Oh!”] I am not! I am trying to give them some advice about how to do things and I am trying to get their minority status into their head. I am trying to help them to deal with that, so I do not know whether the hon. Gentleman listened to what I have said. It is good that they are reviewing things—that is what minority Governments do, and they should continue—but they also have to allow Opposition day debates to conclude and then vote on them and express an opinion. It is important that our constituents hear us in Parliament deciding on the important issues. It is important that they know our views, and the only way they are going to find out how we think about a particular issue or subject is if we vote on it. That is the only way they can determine it.

I do not know whether the Government intend not to vote on any further Opposition day motions, but I am not particularly interested in what Paul Waugh has to say in the Huffington Post on a particular day. I would like to hear it from the Leader of the House. Perhaps we can tempt her to say definitively, yes or no, whether she intends the Government to vote on Opposition day motions at some point. I will give her the chance to say whether it will be an option for the Government. [Interruption.] She is shaking her head, or—