Draft Trade Union (Levy Payable to the Certification Officer) Regulations 2022 Draft Trade Union (Power of the Certification Officer to impose Financial Penalties) Regulations 2022

Debate between Paul Scully and Lord Spellar

Tuesday 25th January 2022 General Committees

[Paul Scully]

I will come back to that in my closing remarks. The CO will be able to take up her own views on a matter when there is a breach. It is a wholly reasonable power for a regulator and works on the basis of similar regulators.

[John Spellar (Warley) (Lab)]

I declare an interest as a 50-year member of Unite and its previous unions. How will unions protect against vexatious complaints from individuals who have a political axe to grind, whether from the extreme right or the Conservative party, as opposed to dealing with the members, who are supposed to be the people most concerned?

[Paul Scully]

This is not a political move. This is not politicising the regulator at all. The regulations are simply designed to bring the regulator in line with other regulators.

--- Later in debate ---

[Paul Scully]

Because we have proceeded as quickly as we can, given the circumstances of parliamentary time. We wanted to make sure that, in response to the consultation, we could reflect the views of the trade unions by making some changes to the regulations. I will outline them in a second, but I repeat that this is the right time to be making the changes.

Under the financial penalties regulations, the certification officer’s enforcement powers are strengthened by allowing her to impose such penalties against organisations that breach their statutory obligations. The maximum amount of penalty will vary by the type of obligation breached and will be banded into three groups to take account of the severity of the obligation breached. That approach found support during the consultation.

The most important statutory obligations required of trade unions relate to political funding, the proper conduct of union elections and personnel propriety considerations. Those obligations are serious matters and I believe that the maximum penalty of £20,000 should be made available to the certification officer. That is in line with the penalties imposed by other bodies, such as the Electoral Commission.

For other failures of statutory governance requirements, a lower level of maximum penalty, £10,000, is appropriate, and that includes the requirement to keep the membership register up to date. Where breaches do not relate to failures of governance as a whole but to requirements to provide information, comply with investigatory requirements or breaches of internal union laws, the regulations limit such fines to a maximum of £5,000.

[John Spellar]

I apologise for taking the Minister back to the previous issue, but I have quickly scanned the explanatory notes. How will the levy be distributed between trade unions and employer associations? On what basis?

[Paul Scully]

I will talk about the distribution in a second.

The regulations also provide for a reduction in the maxima by 50%--bearing in mind that we are talking about the financial penalties—for unions whose membership is under 100,000. That means that no small or medium-sized unions will pay more than £10,000, £5,000 or £2,500, depending on the type of obligations breached. The Government took heed of consultation responses that charging interest would unduly penalise small unions, so we decided not to charge interest for the late payment of penalties.

The Trade Union (Levy Payable to the Certification Officer) Regulations 2022 provide for a levy on unions and employers’ associations to fund the certification officer’s work. It is no longer acceptable for the taxpayer to fund the regulation of these organisations. As my hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton said, a levy is one of the ways used to fund such regulators. The regulations establish a framework for the levy that is equitable, affordable, predictable and simple.

First, the time that the certification officer spends on each of the different categories of regulated organisations, which are non-federated trade unions, federated trade unions, non-federated employers’ associations and federated employers’ associations—

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[Paul Scully]

I am grateful to the Committee for its consideration of both sets of regulations and for Members’ valuable contributions to the debate. As I said in opening the debate, unions play a really important role in industrial relations and have a significant impact on our economy. That is why it is imperative that the public have confidence that they are being regulated effectively and fairly, and these reforms ensure just that.

It is a shame that there was a job lot of questions, because I now have eight minutes to answer all of those. Actually, we have just been re-rehearsing the arguments that were made on the overall premise, which was agreed in relation to the Trade Union Act itself. I will answer some of the questions. Clearly, the employment Bill, as the hon. Member for Glasgow South West knows, is primary legislation. It will be announced, when it comes forward in parliamentary time, in the Queen’s Speech. This measure—what we are addressing today—is completing previous legislation and therefore does not have to go through the same process. The certification officer has received 62 complaints in the last few years. Not all of those had to be investigated, because they could be dismissed. Eight were upheld, and there was one enforcement notice. That is what comes through to—

[John Spellar]

rose—

[Chris Stephens]

rose—

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Paul Scully and Lord Spellar

Tuesday 23rd March 2021 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Paul Scully)]

My hon. Friend has been a champion for all the businesses in her area. We have spent £407 billion on support for businesses, including those that are not eligible for the business rates holiday. The interim report from the fundamental business rates review will be published next month and the full report will be published in the autumn. I urge local authorities to expand their local policies to include some of these businesses in the additional restrictions grant.

[John Spellar (Warley) (Lab)]

The answer earlier that the Government would respond to the appalling fire and rehire in due course is Whitehall-speak for kicking it into the long grass, and it is not good enough. Will the Government learn from the methodology of their vaccine taskforce to move at speed, clarify the problem, identify a solution and make and rapidly implement decisions? Secretary of State, will you cut through the red tape and sort out this scandal? You may even make yourself popular.

[Paul Scully]

The right hon. Gentleman has obviously been speaking to my officials because the issue has popped up on my desk this morning. We will not kick this into the long grass. We will tackle it. We will not allow bully boy tactics. We want a flexible workforce, but not at any cost.

Cystic Fibrosis Drugs: Orkambi

Debate between Paul Scully and Lord Spellar

Monday 10th June 2019 Westminster Hall

[Paul Scully]

There are clearly two sides to the negotiations. The NHS has to understand that CF sufferers are not just names on a spreadsheet; they are real people. We are all here as politicians to represent our constituents, but we are humans first and politicians second. We have to remember the humanity. On the other side of the negotiations, Vertex needs to make sure that these patients—the people living with CF—are not just names on a shareholder report.

[John Spellar (Warley) (Lab)]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his comprehensive introduction. The fundamental core of the problem is the greed of Vertex and its unreasonableness in the discussions. Should the Government not play a much stronger role in dealing with the issue of generics? That is the demand of those who are suffering, such as my constituent Nicola Johnson and her son George, whose capacity is steadily reducing. The Government need to get a move on with that alternative route.

[Paul Scully]

The right hon. Gentleman is right to say that Vertex has to be reasonable, because the UK is effectively the biggest market for a pharma company that comes in to tackle CF, for the reasons that I have mentioned. It has to understand that the issue is not all about its share price in the long term. As a free-market liberal economist, I recognise that private companies must be allowed to deliver fair profits for their shareholders, which will further research and future investment, but they are sailing close to the wind if they are profiteering from human suffering.

 Orkambi and Cystic Fibrosis

Debate between Paul Scully and Lord Spellar

Monday 19th March 2018 Westminster Hall

[Paul Scully]

It is exactly the case—there is no doubt about that. There are many people in the Public Gallery whose children are sufferers from cystic fibrosis. When I was at the Cystic Fibrosis Trust last week, I could not meet many sufferers, because they cannot be in the same room due to the risk of infection. As my hon. Friend says, cystic fibrosis can escalate quickly, and the more we can treat the underlying causes, which Orkambi and subsequent drugs will allow us to do, the better.

[John Spellar (Warley) (Lab)]

Can we not see, during the week in which Stephen Hawking died in his 70s from a condition that was anticipated to kill him in his 20s or early 30s, that in fact conditions can allow for a much longer life? Is it not therefore incumbent on the Government to put pressure on both NHS England and the manufacturer to get an acceptable solution that will enable younger patients in particular to have the same opportunity that Stephen Hawking had?

[Paul Scully]

That is very much the point. Half the people who die of cystic fibrosis are under the age of 31. The average life expectancy for someone born now with cystic fibrosis is 47, so we see how it is starting to extend. When I was at the Cystic Fibrosis Trust just last week, I thought that the two people I was able to meet were just staff of the trust and did not realise they were sufferers. Why was I able to meet them, and why did I not notice? Because they had had lung transplants. In effect, they had pressed the reset button on their suffering. They had fresh pairs of lungs and Orkambi would not necessarily be right or necessary for them. The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right in identifying that it is for the next generation coming through.

Persecution of Religious Minorities: Pakistan

Debate between Paul Scully and Lord Spellar

Thursday 11th February 2016 Westminster Hall

[Paul Scully (Sutton and Cheam) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Turner.

I, too, congratulate the hon. Member for Mitcham and Morden (Siobhain McDonagh) on securing the debate. It a pleasure to serve as vice-chair of the all-party group for the Ahmadiyya Muslim community under her chairmanship. It is good that we have been able to raise these issues in the Chamber today.

My constituency abuts Mitcham and Morden, and our shared border is close to the Baitul Futuh mosque, which it has been a pleasure and privilege to visit on a number of occasions. Some of the people I have met are in the Public Gallery today. Everyone there spoke with composure and in a measured way, despite the extreme circumstances of their fellow believers in Pakistan and, as we have heard, around the world. They have suffered and seen adversity closer to home as well. It was terrible to see the recent fire at the Baitul Futuh mosque, but the Ahmadis bounced back fantastically well as a community. They only look forward. My next visit to the mosque was shortly after the Paris atrocities, and it was wonderful and a real privilege to stand shoulder to shoulder with them to demonstrate exactly what they mean by “Love for all, hatred for none”.

[Mr John Spellar (Warley) (Lab)]

The hon. Gentleman is outlining the role of the Ahmadi community here in the UK. Will he join me in condemning those who have been trying to bring persecution of and discrimination against the Ahmadis to the UK? There have been boycotts of some of their shops and harassment of Ahmadis. Should we in this Parliament make it clear that such activity has no place in this country?

[Paul Scully]

I absolutely agree with the right hon. Gentleman. Hatred and persecution certainly have no place here in the UK. That is why we need to lead from the front and make that case to the Government and other organisations in Pakistan, as well as around the world. The point is well made.