Northern Ireland (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill

Paul Goggins Excerpts

Monday 24th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Villiers]

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for pointing that out. Indeed, the Electoral Commission has expressed support for a number of the provisions in the Bill. We have listened carefully to the commission in preparing the Bill, given the impact that the commission has on the running of elections and the mechanics of politics in Northern Ireland.

If the Bill passes all its stages, we envisage that secondary legislation will cover matters such as the number and amount of donations, the type of donor—that is, whether they are individual or business donors—the date of the donation and whether it came from an Irish source.

Clauses 3 to 5 are a key part of the Bill and will ban the holding of dual mandates in the Assembly and the House of Commons. That has been a matter of concern in Northern Ireland for some years and the committee formed prior to the 2006 St Andrews talks agreed that dual mandates should be phased out. Further concern was expressed during the MPs’ expenses crisis, including by the Committee on Standards in Public Life. Most important of all, an end to double-jobbing was an important commitment made in the 2010 Conservative manifesto for Northern Ireland. Clauses 3 and 5 will enable us to keep the promises we made to the electorate in 2010.

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

I fully support clause 3, but will the Secretary of State explain why she is making arrangements for Members of the House of Commons to be disqualified from membership of the Assembly, but not making similar arrangements for Members of the House of Lords? I know from personal experience that many Members of the House of Lords from Northern Ireland do an excellent job; the question is whether they can do that job and be Members of the Assembly. The Government have decided that Members of the House of Commons should not be Assembly Members; why is it okay for Members of the House of Lords?

[Mrs Villiers]

The right hon. Gentleman asks a fair question, and his position is supported by the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee. My hon. Friend the Minister of State and I reflected carefully on the matter and, in the end, we decided not to go down that route because we feel that the issues are simply not as strong in relation to the House of Lords. It has always been a different type of Chamber, where people are involved in alternative jobs and careers; there is not the same degree of public concern about dual mandates with the House of Lords; and the lack of a constituency and responsibilities for Members of the House of Lords also provides a reason to distinguish them from Members of the House of Commons. We will listen to the debates in this House and in the other place with an open mind, and if the Lords themselves wish us to act on this, of course we will consider their views carefully, but we believe that the focus of the legislation should be the key cause of concern in Northern Ireland, and that is dual mandates in the Assembly and the House of Commons.

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[Vernon Coaker]

Obviously, we all hope that those measures are successful. As I have said, I thought the package announced by the Government a few days ago was a step in the right direction. However, I am talking about the sense of urgency needed to accelerate progress and saying that the Government here in London should recognise the huge impact that Treasury decisions have on Northern Ireland, which has particular circumstances as it emerges from conflict. The Secretary of State will know, from hon. Members here and representatives she meets in Northern Ireland, of the real concern about the impact in many communities of joblessness as well as the Government’s welfare changes, the impact of which the Government need to reflect carefully on.

Huge progress has been made on policing and justice. I welcome the changes made to ensure security of tenure for the Justice Minister. I encouraged the Government to legislate on that more than a year ago, and I am glad that the relevant measures are included in the Bill. David Ford, the current incumbent, does a good job in tough circumstances, and I pay tribute to him. Further to policing and justice, I will continue to raise the very serious issue of the National Crime Agency’s inability to operate in Northern Ireland.

[Paul Goggins]

I am pleased that my hon. Friend has raised that point. He said that the Bill contains measures that will clearly have broad support in all parts of the House. He is right, however, to argue with some urgency about the need to return to provisions in the Crime and Courts Act 2013 that are still not in operation, and have no likelihood of being so, in Northern Ireland. That is very good news for criminals and very bad news for the people of Northern Ireland.

[Vernon Coaker]

The fact that the National Crime Agency cannot operate in Northern Ireland as it does in the rest of the UK is a source of great regret to us all. I hope that as we go through the Bill we can look at ways in which we may continue to support the Secretary of State in putting pressure on the Home Secretary to work with the Northern Ireland Executive to get the legislative consent necessary for the agency’s remit to extend to Northern Ireland.

The Executive’s publication of their strategy on community sharing and integration is to be welcomed. However, that does not mean that there is no longer a role for Westminster and the Government to play in helping to build a shared future across Northern Ireland, with no community left behind. I would have liked the Bill to include a measure to consolidate the work of the Executive and, most importantly, of the thousands of individuals and organisations doing hugely important work to bring people together in friendship, understanding and co-operation.

Some weeks ago I spoke to a group of students from Queen’s university and the university of Ulster. I was struck by their confidence, ability and experience. Let us be clear: these young people, aged 18, 19 and 20, were not untouched by sectarianism. I was genuinely surprised to hear from one very bright and articulate student that the first time she had, in any real sense, met someone from the other side was when she went to university. We have a duty to ensure that in future 18, 19 and 20-year-olds do not have to leave home to meet their neighbours.

The Bill contains provisions relating to arm’s length bodies such as the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission, which does important and valuable work. It would be helpful if the Secretary of State outlined what role she sees for it in future and shared her views on a Bill of Rights for Northern Ireland.

On the electoral registration provisions, I add a note of caution. We need to get the balance right between ensuring that as many people as possible who are entitled to do so engage in our democratic process while protecting against the kind of electoral fraud that is an affront to that process.

In this Second Reading debate, the main point that I want to make to the Government is that they should reflect on whether anything more could be included in the Bill that would help to build peace, progress and prosperity in Northern Ireland. I am always glad, and often surprised, to learn how keen people in Northern Ireland are for us to visit to hear their stories and share in some of their experiences. Nowhere has this been more evident than in engaging with victims and survivors. It is always an incredibly humbling and emotional experience to speak with those who have lost loved ones. The heartbreaking stories that I have heard have moved and affected me greatly, as I am sure they have many others.

I have met dozens of victims and survivors, some with organisations, some individually, right across Northern Ireland. Some months ago I spent time with a woman whose two brothers had joined the Royal Ulster Constabulary together on the same day—a very proud one for her family. One of them was killed in a car bomb just a few months later, and just as she was beginning to recover from that, the other was killed in a mortar attack on a police station, 15 years after his brother. It devastated her and her family. I also met the mother of a young girl aged 12 who died in her father’s arms just yards from her home after being shot by a soldier. There was no explanation of or justification for either of those events.

These are very difficult and painful things to speak about, but we have had many difficult and painful conversations in Northern Ireland, and we need to have this one. Is there nothing we can propose in the Bill that would help this process and take it forward? The Government say that there is no consensus on the way forward and therefore no possibility of agreement. In essence, that it is to do with them. I fundamentally disagree, as Members will know. Dealing with the past—the legacy of the troubles—is expressly a responsibility of the Northern Ireland Office. It cannot act alone, of course, and I have consistently said that we need a comprehensive and inclusive process with victims and survivors at the centre. The last time we debated Northern Ireland on the Floor of the House, the hon. Member for North Down (Lady Hermon) asked me what I meant by that. I repeat today that the Government, in partnership with the Irish Government, have a duty to lead, but not to prescribe. They must create a vehicle through which these issues can be discussed and resolved. Of course, that will take time and it will not be easy, but the prize will be worth it. Victims and survivors are not afraid to talk about the past; the Governments should not be either.

Just last week, I went to St Ethelburga’s church, which was blown up by the IRA in the Bishopsgate bombing in 1993, where I saw the Theatre of Witness production, “From the Rubble”. It was an incredibly powerful performance that bore witness to the wounds of the past, which are still visible to many in Northern Ireland. The performers were not acting, but telling their own real stories. One said that we need to have an eye on the future, as well as an eye on the past. We cannot ignore the past, but we must not be trapped by it either.

That is why I am saddened that the Government cannot find a way in the Bill to allow the issues of the past to be discussed and addressed, so that consensus may emerge. The legacy of the past has to be dealt with and the Government must consider the impact that it has on the victims, the survivors and everyone in Northern Ireland.