NHS

Debate between Paul Burstow and Anne Main

Wednesday 5th February 2014 Commons Chamber

[Paul Burstow]

I entirely agree that if there is any doubt about the figures, it needs to be resolved, but there seems to be a disconnect between what people think is happening and what the figures show. I have been to events at which clinicians have said that the problem is the local social services, but when they are shown the figures they are surprised. Perhaps that is why we need, as the hon. Lady says, to ensure that there is an agreed way in which such things are reported, which is what, I think, was put in place by the previous Labour Government. These figures have been collected for a long time, and they have consistently shown that social care is not the principal driver of delayed discharges.

[Mrs Main]

I am sorry to have missed the beginning of my right hon. Friend’s speech, but as he knows there is a big lobby going on. That was the point I was trying to make to the Secretary of State, although obviously I did not make it very well. Under the previous Government, West Hertfordshire Hospitals NHS Trust had a significant number of delayed discharges—although that is coming right down now—and the figures were not on the books, so to speak, thanks to a very creative form of accounting. It is nuanced and there have been problems on all sides. To try to paint it as one-sided is totally wrong and it certainly is not a new phenomenon; it has been going on for a considerable time.

[Paul Burstow]

That is absolutely right. For example, in continuing health care there is often a great deal of contestability that leads to discharge delays, but they are NHS-caused delays. I am not saying that the NHS should be blamed any more than social services, but I want some honesty about how the figures are presented as they do not bear close scrutiny in the argument made by the right hon. Member for Leigh. His solution is simplistic, too. It is good to have a debate about competition policy—I remember Labour Ministers trumpeting the introduction of the first competition policies in the NHS and the establishment of the competition and collaboration committee in the Department of Health. Labour established those policies.

Monitor’s role is to protect the interests of patients—that is what it says in the Health and Social Care Act 2012—not to promote competition. The idea that we can solve the problem by sweeping away Monitor opens the doors to competition red in tooth and claw. Of course, the Competition Act 1998, the EU’s competition legislation and procurement law would still apply without any of the fetters, barriers or protections that Monitor can and should be providing in its role as the regulator of competition in the NHS.