Electronic Trade Documents Bill [ Lords ] (First sitting)

Patrick Grady Excerpts

Committee stage
Monday 19th June 2023 Public Bill Committees

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Science, Innovation and Technology (Paul Scully)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Dame Angela. Clause 1 defines the type of trade documents that may fall within the scope of the Bill. It does so by setting out the criteria that the documents must satisfy. The list of documents included is intentionally broad to ensure that when the trade market uses a document in such a way that possession of it is significant—even if that is a matter of commercial practice, rather than law—it can be confident that it is regarded as being possible to possess it.

[Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP)]

I am keen to welcome the provisions giving legal recognition to electronic trade documents. It is clear from all the evidence and research behind the Bill that digitalisation of the documents listed in the clause will help to speed up transactions and lead to significant cost savings and efficiencies. The Government claim that they are ahead of other G7 countries in introducing these changes, but I wonder whether this does not all still smack a bit of yesterday’s technology solving today’s problems tomorrow, rather than tomorrow’s technology solving those problems today. With the rise of artificial intelligence, I wonder how soon some of the processes that we are talking about will be conducted with very little human interaction.

The clause provides the foundation for the rest of the Bill by setting out the definition of “paper trade document” and all that follows from that. The Scottish Government had some concerns about the Bill, but I will come on to those a little later.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 1 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 2

Definition of “electronic trade document”

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

[Paul Scully]

The clause defines the criteria that a trade document in electronic form will need to meet to fall within the scope of the Bill, and therefore to be legally equivalent to a paper document.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 2 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 3

Possession, indorsement and effect of electronic trade documents

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alex Davies-Jones]

I have just a brief question for the Minister. In the Second Reading Committee, I pressed him on where the responsibility for the Bill would sit. I would appreciate it if he would put on the record exactly which Secretary of State will have responsibility for and oversight of the Bill.

[Patrick Grady]

I echo the point made by the Labour Front Bencher. This is a Law Commission Bill being taken forward by a Minister from the Department for Science, Innovation and Technology on matters largely overseen and regulated by the Department for Business and Trade. A little clarity about exactly which Secretary of State is referred to in these clauses would be helpful.

The Scottish Government welcome the Bill in principle, but the initial legislative consent memorandum set out a number of concerns about the powers granted to UK Ministers to legislate in devolved areas, particularly without the requirement for consent from Scottish Ministers or Scotland’s Parliament. The amendments tabled by the Minister go some way towards addressing that, so the supplementary legislative consent memorandum published by the Scottish Government on 13 June sets out:

“While the amendments proposed by the UK Government do not provide a full statutory consent provision, on balance, the Scottish Government recommends that the Parliament grants legislative consent”.

That is because

“The policy objective of the Bill is strongly supported by both the Scottish Government and stakeholders…there is no current legislative opportunity at Holyrood to make equivalent provision for Scotland, and any such legislation would not be as comprehensive as the UK Bill…the power involved is extremely limited, and unique to this law reform Bill…the aim is to ensure consistency in a mutually agreeable and workable way and that in practice it is highly unlikely for Scottish Ministers to want different arrangements for trade documents to apply in Scotland.”

It is welcome that the Minister has been able to table amendments that will allow Holyrood to agree to the Bill, but I wonder slightly whether this could not have been foreseen. Scottish Government Ministers and, indeed, those of us who represent the SNP in this House, have for several years expressed our concern at increasing overreach by UK Ministers into devolved areas, especially in the context of Brexit. There was quite a lengthy consultation before the Bill was published, so quite why none of this appears to have occurred to Ministers before we got to the Public Bill Committee right at the end of a Bill that started in the House of Lords is slightly beyond me. However, consensus does, for once, appear to have been reached. These amendments will make the Bill much more palatable, so that should ease its remaining stages both here and in Holyrood.

[Paul Scully]

I am glad that we were able to get there by the end. The Government have undertaken significant legal works, including by engaging independent legal counsel to analyse and ensure the compatibility of the Bill’s provisions with both English and Scots law, including that related to the Moveable Transactions (Scotland) Bill currently before the Scottish Parliament. I am glad that we got there in the end, ensuring that we talk and agree as best we can. I can confirm that the Secretary of State for the Department for Business and Trade will be exercising this power.

Amendment 1 agreed to.

Electronic Trade Documents Bill [Lords]

Patrick Grady Excerpts

3rd reading
Monday 10th July 2023 Commons Chamber

[Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP)]

I echo the thanks that have been paid to the Bill teams—the civil servants, both here and in Scotland, who have worked to bring the Bill through. When it was in Committee, a debate on a report from the Privileges Committee was taking place in the Chamber, which seemed to inject a sense of urgency into the Committee proceedings and a feeling that some Members would rather have been elsewhere. Today’s debate comes after the debate on the report from the Privileges Committee has concluded, so there is slightly less pressure, and the Bill is getting the airing it deserves.

The hon. Member for Totnes (Anthony Mangnall) was right to take the opportunity to put his points on the record. The Bill is largely technical and uncontroversial, but it is important to put on record some of the key issues that have been identified during its passage, both about its contents and the way in which the Government have taken it through Parliament.

The Bill will ease significantly the regulatory and bureaucratic burdens on businesses by allowing the legal recognition of electronic trade documents. I think the Government themselves reckon that this could be worth over £1 billion in value to the UK’s international trade over the next 10 years. As we have heard, hundreds of pages of documents previously required to be produced in physical format—which of course will almost certainly have been generated electronically anyway and then printed off—can now be exchanged digitally, more quickly and more securely.

As enabling and facilitative legislation, the Bill paves the way for further innovation. Last week, I had some fascinating discussions with researchers from the University of Lincoln’s Institute for Agri-Food Technology, who were visiting Parliament as part of the annual evidence week activities. They and the many other businesses and academics they work with were very excited about the opportunities this Bill will provide for data sharing and for analytics about the movement of goods, and the opportunities in particular that that could bring, for example, for the reduction of food waste and the environmental impact across the supply chain.

I think I spent slightly longer discussing the Bill with those academics than the Bill spent in its Second Reading Committee, which concluded in just seven minutes, and the Public Bill Committee sat for a grand total of 15 minutes. Their lordships managed slightly better, with a total of about two and half hours of scrutiny across three stages. I think stakeholders must sometimes look at our proceedings with not a little bemusement, and wonder about the Government’s priorities in the allocation and use of time, even if this is an expedited procedure.

Of course, despite the Law Commission’s work to develop proposals for the Bill and the various stages of consideration in the House of Lords, it was only when the Bill got to the Committee stage that the Government were finally able to bring forward amendments that would provide Scottish Ministers with the reassurances they needed to recommend that Holyrood consent to the Bill. Without those amendments, there was a serious risk of yet more legislative overreach by the UK Government, straying into areas of Scots law that have been devolved to the Scottish Parliament for nearly 25 years.

The Bill has also been scrutinised by two Committees of the Scottish Parliament—the Economy and Fair Work Committee, and the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee. The Economy and Fair Work Committee took evidence from the Scottish Government’s Minister for Small Business, Innovation and Trade in a session that lasted 23 minutes, which was still one minute longer than the total time taken by this House to consider the Bill until we started this Third Reading consideration.

However, those Committees were ultimately able to agree with the Scottish Government’s recommendation that the Scottish Parliament should in the end grant the Bill legislative consent. But they have both, as indeed have Scottish Government Ministers, expressed concern and disappointment at the time it has taken to resolve the challenges identified by the Scottish Government in the Bill, as first presented both to the Lords and to this House. Consensus has finally been reached and, as the Order Paper notes, on 27 June the Scottish Parliament agreed a legislative consent motion.

I hope that means attention can now turn to the implementation of the provisions of the Bill, the easing of bureaucratic burdens, and the innovation in information and data exchange that producers, traders and other stakeholders in supply chains use to keep us fed, clothed and otherwise going about our daily lives.