UK Energy Costs

Debate between Patricia Gibson and Ian Blackford

Thursday 8th September 2022 Commons Chamber

[Ian Blackford (Ross, Skye and Lochaber) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to follow the former Prime Minister, the right hon. Member for Maidenhead (Mrs May). If I may briefly reflect back on the way she behaved when she was Prime Minister, I have to say that she showed courtesy to Opposition leaders, whether it was the then leader of the Labour party or ourselves as the third party. If I may gently say so to the Prime Minister, some of the protocols to make sure that we have advance sight of statements, and indeed are aware of when the Prime Minister will be coming to the Chamber to speak, are important—I do not know whether she was listening to any of that, but it would be helpful if it could be passed on.

At the start of the year we were faced with an energy crisis. By the summer it was an emergency. Right now, today, we are at the precipice of a humanitarian disaster, because it is no longer a question of whether to heat or eat when many households can no longer afford to do either.

[Patricia Gibson]

Will my right hon. Friend give way?

[Ian Blackford]

Let me make some progress and then I will.

This cost crisis puts livelihoods and lives at risk. All the while, as this disaster deepened, all summer the Tories spent all their time desperately fighting among themselves, and the public were left desperately waiting for a real cost of living plan. We finally—finally—have a plan today, but I fear that when the public absorb the details, it will fall far short of the help we need.

We have heard today that the green levies are being scrapped. That is of deep concern to those of us on these Benches, particularly given that the green levies fund the warm home discount scheme and, of course, energy-efficiency measures for low-income households. I ask the Government to make sure that that support will remain in place for those who need it. But the sheer scale of the soaring energy bills meant that there was never any question but that households and businesses would not be able to pay the cost of energy bills. They were, and they are, unaffordable. If these prices were not frozen, the bills simply could not have been paid, so freezing prices was not really a choice. It is the only political option.

When the current price cap stands at £2,000, with a 54% increase since spring, and when many people are already unable to pay, setting the cap at £2,500 is not an actual freeze. We know, too, that businesses, especially SMEs, are facing even sharper cost increases than households, and an avalanche of insolvencies and redundancies is forecast. Many businesses simply could not have afforded to stay open.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ian Blackford]

I will make progress, because I am conscious of time and those who want to speak.

I will briefly deal with another prominent point in the Prime Minister’s speech. She blames the cost of living crisis on the war in Ukraine and I believe that that is worth expanding on. Of course, there is no doubt that what has happened in Ukraine has played a major role in spiralling wholesale prices, and we have rightly come together across the Chamber in condemnation of Putin’s horrific war and his actions to thwart European energy supplies. I look forward to continuing to work with the new Government in a spirit of consensus on this issue. We all stand together against Putin’s horrible actions and the war in Ukraine.

As we have rightly helped Ukraine, however, we must also help citizens at home. Indeed, we owe it to them to do so; I hope that the Prime Minister will reach consensus with me on that point. Where we divide is my belief that we must recognise that other countries in Europe, which are far more reliant on Russian gas than the UK, have weathered the economic storm far better than the United Kingdom. We must therefore recognise the UK Government’s role in creating the circumstances for the crisis. Shameful mismanagement by successive Tory Governments, topped by a Tory Brexit, means that the UK has the highest inflation in the G7 and the lowest growth in the G20, and that we are marching headlong into a recession. UK household electricity prices have surged ahead of those of our European peers, and the UK is now in a deeper state of crisis than most, because of the damaging choices that have been made.

[Patricia Gibson]

For my constituents in North Ayrshire and Arran, who live in difficulty, the most important aspect of today’s announcement is that they were waiting to hear of help with their fuel bills, but they were instead told that their fuel bills will rise. They will be bitterly disappointed by that. Nothing has been offered to them today. Does my right hon. Friend agree with their disappointment?

[Ian Blackford]

Yes, I do. We need to reflect that energy bills are rising in an energy-rich Scotland. The damage done by the UK Government’s choices—choices that have been imposed on us—make the choice about Scotland’s future ever clearer. Scotland is energy rich, so we simply should not be facing an energy emergency. It may surprise some in this House, but Scotland produces six times more gas than we consume and almost 100% of our entire electricity production comes from renewables. That is not attention-seeking, I would say to the Prime Minister; these are the facts. Scotland has the energy, but we just simply do not have the powers. We are stuck in a UK market that prices our electricity on the basis of the price of wholesale gas, and the power to change the system lies with Westminster.

European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Bill

Debate between Patricia Gibson and Ian Blackford

2nd reading: House of Commons & Programme motion: House of Commons
Tuesday 22nd October 2019 Commons Chamber

[Ian Blackford]

We have been four-square behind a people’s vote over the course of the last year, and indeed I spoke at the rally in London on Saturday, so I absolutely stand by the words of our First Minister in that letter.

[Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP)]

A number of people have raised concerns today about the lack of scrutiny and the lack of time to look at this Bill. My right hon. Friend has pointed out that Scotland has of course been ignored in this process—a nation that voted significantly to remain in the EU. Does he share my concern that, in among all this, we continue to forget, conveniently for some perhaps, the fact that this referendum was won on a very narrow margin across the UK? The Electoral Commission has said that electoral law was broken, but that has been swept under the carpet, and I call into question the legitimacy of the result at all.

[Ian Blackford]

I think there are very legitimate questions to be answered, and my hon. Friend is quite correct. I am conscious of time and I have taken a number of interventions, but I am not far from the end and I wish to move on and conclude. [Interruption.] Really? “Thank God for that” is what we get from Government Members. That is the disrespect that is shown to the Scottish people. Perhaps they should stand up and put it on the record. That is an absolute disgrace.

It is simply an insult to democracy that the Government are trying to push this Bill through in limited time, and I urge Members—I urge even those on the Government Benches—to ask themselves: is this really how they want things to be done? Even the previous director of legislative affairs at No. 10, Nikki da Costa, stated in May that this Bill would take “more than four weeks”. What has changed? Moreover, it was agreed that this legislation must not be passed until the UK Government have published an economic impact assessment of their deal, yet on “BBC Breakfast” on Saturday, the Brexit Secretary confirmed that no economic analysis has been done by this Government on the final deal. That is the height of irresponsibility. There is no economic analysis on a deal that is going to have a fundamental impact on the lives of all our citizens.

Each and every one of us in this House knows—because we have seen the evidence, we have listened to the experts—that there is no such thing as a good Brexit. In every scenario, Brexit threatens jobs, it risks environmental standards, it risks workers’ rights, it unravels co-operation and opportunities and, importantly, it poses questions about the future values that the UK has fostered hand in hand with the European Union. This Government are closing their eyes, putting their head in the sand and hoping that the sun comes out—the sunny uplands that the Brexiteers talk about—but that is reckless and it is foolish. The arrogance and the incompetence of the Government cannot and must not be allowed to go unchecked. Our priority today must be to ensure that an extension is negotiated and secured with the European Union, so this House can scrutinise fully and properly the significant lasting changes that this legislation will mean.

In closing, I want to touch on some of the substantive points about why, in no circumstances, will the SNP ever vote for Brexit and this shameful deal. Despite our efforts to compromise, this legislation will take us out of the European Union, out of the single market and out of the customs union. With the Prime Minister’s deal, under a free trade agreement Scotland’s GDP would be around 6.1% less, or £9 billion worse off, than if we stayed in the European Union. That is equivalent to £1,600 per person in Scotland. That is the cost of the Prime Minister’s Brexit for Scotland. Northern Ireland businesses will have easier access to the European single market while simultaneously enjoying “unfettered” access to the UK market. There is significant uncertainty as to how the economic impact may play out, but it could see Scottish business losing market share with direct competitors. The risk is that supply chains may be reorganised to take advantage of Northern Ireland’s preferential access to the single market. It may even play a role in location decisions in some cases.

The SNP is significantly concerned that the removal of the commitments on environmental protection from the withdrawal agreement, and restricting them to the non-binding political declaration, opens the door to UK divergence from EU standards. The political declaration remains weak in relation to human rights, and in particular on the importance of continuing UK compliance with the European convention on human rights.

Scotland will be worse off—unfairly disadvantaged—despite our will to remain. Therefore, I urge Members not to sell out Scotland. Listen to the will of the Scottish people, protect our devolution settlement, respect our democratically expressed wishes and stand by the rights of the Scottish people, businesses, farmers, crofters, fishermen, students, doctors and nurses. Stand by them and vote to stop this disastrous deal and to give the Scottish Parliament, and therefore the Scottish people, their say.

Debate on the Address

Debate between Patricia Gibson and Ian Blackford

Monday 14th October 2019 Commons Chamber

[Ian Blackford]

I very often agree with the hon. Gentleman, and I absolutely agree with him on this. There ought to be a commitment in the Queen’s Speech that the TV licences of those over 75 will be paid by the Government. My question to the Prime Minister is: where is that? Let us have a signal that those over 75 will have the comfort of being able to watch television and having their TV licences paid for.

[Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP)]

We have just heard about the attack on women born in the 1950s and the assault on free TV licences, and we know about the changes to universal credit. Does my right hon. Friend share my concern that this Queen’s Speech has done nothing to halt that relentless attack on pensioners?

[Ian Blackford]

Absolutely—and pensioners will be better off in an independent Scotland than they are under this Conservative Government.

What a missed opportunity the Queen’s Speech has been! Although the SNP welcomes progress on bringing forward legislation on the pensions dashboard, the Bill falls short in a number of areas. We have discussed the 1950s women: the Government have a responsibility to address the hardship visited on hundreds of thousands of those women. It must be addressed in this legislation. It simply cannot go on any longer.

Moreover, the Scottish National party has consistently called for the establishment of an independent pensions and savings commission to deal with policy gaps in delivering dignity in retirement. If the Prime Minister and his Government are really interested in delivering on preparation for later life, they need to get real. Not everyone has a Tory trust fund to fall back on. We need robust and responsive policy to deal with the crisis in pensions saving that we simply cannot wait for. I therefore plead with the Government: do not mess this up; establish the commission and use the opportunity to deliver a pensions Bill that actually delivers fairness for older people, rather than uncertainty, complexity and hardship.

The Government have said that as part of their efforts they will bring forward a new environment Bill to set legally binding targets to reduce the use of plastics, restore biodiversity, improve water quality and cut air pollution. We on the SNP Benches say about time. The Government might at last have woken up to the reality of the climate crisis, but the devil will be in the detail. Already, the United Kingdom Government are lagging behind the Scottish Government in their commitment to ending the climate crisis. The SNP Scottish Government already have more robust targets in place, so I say to the UK Government that if they are ready to face the reality that our world demands action now, then they should follow the lead of the SNP Scottish Government.

Members across the House know that the single market has been achieved by removing barriers to trade and having a single set of trade rules across all member states.

European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 2) Act 2019 (Rule of Law)

Debate between Patricia Gibson and Ian Blackford

Monday 9th September 2019 Commons Chamber

[Ian Blackford]

This is a debate about observing the law. If the hon. Gentleman wants to speak in a debate about an election, that debate is taking place later on.

[Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP)]

Government Members have said time and again that the Prime Minister and the Government will obey the law, and yet we have heard the Prime Minister talk about how he would rather die in a ditch. Does my right hon. Friend share my concern that with backroom shenanigans the Government are looking for a way to evade the law?

[Ian Blackford]

My hon. Friend says shenanigans; I would perhaps prefer to use some other words that I am prohibited from doing in this place. Let’s just think about a Government threatening to break the law. What signal are we sending to the citizens of the United Kingdom, when the Prime Minister of this country, the highest office in the land, is telling the people it’s okay to break the law? It is a dereliction of duty and demonstrates he is not fit for the office of Prime Minister.

If the Prime Minister wants an election, he must obey the law and take a no-deal Brexit off the table. The UK Government’s Law Officers and the Secretary of State for Justice must intervene to ensure he respects the letter and the spirit of the law and removes the threat of no deal. They have responsibilities, first and foremost to uphold the law, and if they cannot receive those assurances tonight from the Prime Minister, their positions become untenable. How can they look themselves in the mirror in the full knowledge that nobody, but nobody, is above the law, and remain in office? This sorry saga should lead to more Ministers asking a simple question: are they prepared to remain in ministerial posts in a Government prepared to break the law? That is a fundamental question.

The Government should face reality. This House has legislated to remove no deal as an option at the end of October. They must signal tonight that they will comply with that legislation. Make no mistake—once the threat of no deal is off the table, we will move for an early election. Make no mistake—we in the Scottish National party want an election, but we must first satisfy ourselves that the Government will uphold the law and deliver an extension to remain in the EU. The people should not be shut out or silenced by this Prime Minister. They must be heard, and heard on the right terms, not on the terms of the Prime Minister’s shabby and shady stunts.

European Union (Withdrawal)

Debate between Patricia Gibson and Ian Blackford

Tuesday 3rd September 2019 Commons Chamber

[Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP)]

Does my right hon. Friend recall very clearly, as I do, that on 6 April 2016 we were told by the current Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, “The day after we vote to leave the EU, we will hold all the cards.”? Does that not simply show that this Government are being run by a hopeless, naive group of fantasists?

[Ian Blackford]

It grieves me to see what is taking place, because, in effect, what has happened with the election of the Prime Minister is that the Vote Leave campaign now runs the Government. The harsh reality is that Conservative Back Benchers who are prepared to put our national interests before party interests are going to be forced out of their party. The Tory party has been taken over by a cult, and that does nothing—absolutely nothing—for our democracy.

Sewel Convention

Debate between Patricia Gibson and Ian Blackford

Monday 18th June 2018 Commons Chamber

[Ian Blackford]

I am grateful to be reminded of that quote.

I would say to hon. Members on the Government Benches: be careful. This is not about the offence that has been taken by the Scottish National party. Conservative Members need to take on board the fact that they have offended the Scottish Parliament and all the parties in it that I have talked about. All of us on these Benches were back home in Scotland over the weekend, and I can tell the House that Scotland has changed. The strong message that is coming across is that the people who voted for devolution in 1997 can see clearly what is going on. However the Government want to try to define it or spin it, this is an attack on the powers of the Scottish Parliament in the teeth of the opposition of the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish people. The Conservatives will pay a heavy price, as they have done in the past, if they do not listen to the voices of the Scottish people.

[Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP)]

My right hon. Friend will recall that the Conservative party fought tooth and nail against the re-establishment of a Scottish Parliament. What we are seeing on the Conservative Benches are apologists—[Interruption.]

[Patricia Gibson]

The Conservatives opposed the re-establishment of a Scottish Parliament, and we now see the apologists defending the undermining of devolution itself. Does my right hon. Friend agree that they were hostile to the very concept of devolution in the first place?

[Ian Blackford]

My hon. Friend is quite correct. They have form, and it goes back over a century.

Defending Public Services

Debate between Patricia Gibson and Ian Blackford

Monday 23rd May 2016 Commons Chamber

[Ian Blackford]

One of the things we want to do in Scotland is to deliver economic prosperity and a fairer society. We want to invest in our economy in order to grow the economy. Let me remind the right hon. Gentleman that we fought the general election in Scotland on a progressive manifesto that would have seen us investing over the lifetime of this Parliament, throughout the UK, £140 billion by increasing Government spending by 0.5%—investing in innovation and in our productive potential with a view to delivering confidence and growth in the economy. This was a sensible programme that would still have seen both the debt and the deficit reduced. It was a sensible way of dealing with the problems we face both in Scotland and in the rest of the UK.

It does not matter how many times the Government use the soundbite of “life chances” because in reality the so-called assault on poverty is a crusade to refine what poverty is and a shift towards blaming individuals rather than the Government, so that their austerity agenda can continue to attack the most disadvantaged in our society.

[Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that all the rhetoric about the life chances strategy is incompatible with the austerity agenda that is all about balancing the books on the backs of the poor?

[Ian Blackford]

My hon. Friend is correct: we need to invest in our children and in our productive potential, giving life chances through opportunities, which are badly missing from this Government’s approach.

Imran Hussain, the director of policy for the Child Poverty Action Group, said:

“There is a disconnect between what the government is doing and saying. You can’t spread life chances when child poverty is expected to rise steeply.”

He said that there was

“very little evidence about poverty being caused by addictions or family breakdown”.

Recent Office for National Statistics figures show the true scale of poverty in the UK, with almost a third of the population experiencing poverty at least once between 2011 and 2014. The Institute for Fiscal Studies analysis of February 2016 found that absolute child poverty is expected to increase from 15.1% in 2015-16 to 18.3% in 2020-21. We do not want lectures from the Conservatives on improving life chances; all the evidence shows that exactly the opposite is happening.

What would it take for the Conservatives to wake up to the reality that increased child poverty is a direct consequence of their austerity agenda? Their attempt to disguise cuts with this life chances agenda is transparent. If the Government want to lift children out of poverty and give them an equal start in life, they must reverse their punitive cuts and be more ambitious about tackling in-work poverty.

Transitional State Pension Arrangements for Women

Debate between Patricia Gibson and Ian Blackford

Wednesday 24th February 2016 Commons Chamber

[Ian Blackford]

I have already taken a lot of interventions and I am aware that many Members want to speak, so I shall try to get through my points as quickly as I can.

Let me deal with the real case of women born in the early 1950s. This is something I have said before, but it needs repetition. Let us talk about women born on 10 February and let us look at the different experiences as they apply to each of the years of the early 1950s. Someone born on 10 February 1950 would have retired at age 60 in 2010. Women born a year later, however, would have had to wait almost two years longer to have retired on 6 January 2012. A woman born on 10 February 1952 would have reached state pension age on 6 January 2014, aged 61 years, 10 months and 27 days. Such a woman has had to wait an additional two years in comparison with a woman born in 1950.

If that were not bad enough, the increase for women born in 1953 and 1954 gets much worse. Someone born in 1953 would have retired in January this year, aged nearly 63, whereas a woman born in 1954 will not reach pensionable age until 6 July 2019, when she will be aged 65 years, four months and 26 days. A woman born in 1954 has to wait two and a half years longer for their pension than someone born a year earlier. We should dwell on that point.

[Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that as this plays out to the public, many women in the WASPI campaign who are watching our proceedings today, no doubt with huge disappointment, will be even more disappointed to see that the Tory Benches are populated almost exclusively by men, who are explaining why women born in the 1950s should not be able to access their pension? [Interruption.] I said “almost exclusively”. They are watching these detached, remote, middle-aged men explaining why they cannot access their pensions.

[Ian Blackford]

I thank my hon. Friend for that point. We should all, whether we be men or women, reflect on the unfairness. It is an issue that we should see as simply wrong, and we should deal with it, whether we be male or female.

Let us dwell on the point. Someone born in 1953 has now retired, while someone born in 1954 has to wait until 2019. Where is the fairness in that? Let me ask Conservative Members who among them is going to defend it. I ask a Minister, a Back Bencher or any Conservative to rise to defend what the Government are doing. Why should some people have to wait so long?

Tax Credits

Debate between Patricia Gibson and Ian Blackford

Tuesday 20th October 2015 Commons Chamber

[Ian Blackford]

We are not making any apocalyptic predictions about the economy. What we are talking about is the impact on hard-working families. We want to see investment in our economy. We want to see investment in innovation and skills, improving productivity and improving the living standards of all, in Scotland and elsewhere. We want to work with you so that we can improve those things.

[Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP)]

Will my hon. Friend give way?

[Ian Blackford]

I will give way in a second, but I want to make a little bit of progress.

Let me pose this question to Conservative Members. What will you say next year to constituents, hard-working, decent folk, many of whom will have voted for you, and who have just seen their incomes cut by more than £1,000? Are you going to tell them that their hard work is paying dividends—that for them, work is paying? You do not have an answer, because there isn’t one. The policy is wrong, and you have the opportunity to change it: to do the right thing for the country, and to do the right thing for hard-working families in your constituencies.

Scotland Bill

Debate between Patricia Gibson and Ian Blackford

Tuesday 30th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Ian Blackford]

No, not the current Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath; my hon. Friend would not do anything so rash.

There is a crisis in the funding of such schemes and the tax treatment of dividends requires a fresh examination. Pension freedoms were initiated in the last Parliament. While we broadly welcome the enhancement of consumer choice, SNP Members have gone on record as questioning the appropriateness of the advice that consumers receive and the risks of mis-selling. Those concerns have not been adequately addressed, and if pensions are devolved to Scotland, the Parliament in Edinburgh may want to look at it.

We welcome the amendment, especially in the light of the threatened attack on the most vulnerable in our society if the Government go ahead with their £12 billion-worth of cuts. We recognise that we can deliver only if we have fiscal responsibility as part of the equation. We recognise our responsibilities to look after the vulnerable in our society. We firmly believe that we need power over our economy to deliver sustainable economic growth and grow the tax base to generate the resources to create not only a wealthier but a fairer Scotland. Passing the amendment today would at least give us the power to intervene to ameliorate some of the pain that will be inflicted on so many of our people by the policies of the UK Government.

[Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP)]

I am delighted to speak in favour of amendment 118 and new clause 45, which call for the removal of the requirement for the Scottish Government to obtain consent from the UK Secretary of State in relation to universal credit and the cost of claimants who rent accommodation.

In the light of our mandate from the Scottish people, and the lack of democratic mandate that the Conservatives —indeed, any of the other parties—have in Scotland, we urge all in the Committee to support the amendment. We set it out unequivocally in our manifesto that, as part of our welfare priorities, there should be an immediate scrapping of the bedroom tax and a halt to the roll-out of universal credit and PIP payments. We said that we would support an increase in the work allowance. Those policies were supported by both the people of Scotland and civic Scotland and we have a clear democratic mandate for that demand, given the result of the general election.

We are particularly concerned about the work allowance element of universal credit—the amount of income that a household can earn before their universal credit entitlement is reduced. We demand that the work allowance be devolved to the Scottish Government as part of new clause 45, and democratic integrity requires that that demand be met. We support increases in the personal tax allowance, but we also back an increase in the work allowance. In this, we are in keeping with a Resolution Foundation policy proposal paper, which pointed out:

“if we really want to help working families on low and middle incomes, boosting the Work Allowance would be more effective and better value for money than any tax cuts”.

For a lone parent with housing costs, for example, the work allowance is currently set at just over £3,000 per year. After that point benefits start to be withdrawn. For example, those on universal credit lose £65 of benefit for every £100 of post-allowance salary. Of course we need to put in place some sort of tapering system to make work pay, but the complexity of the system allows—indeed, encourages—the Government to focus on simpler measures, even if those simpler measures are far less effective. Take the personal allowance. People begin paying tax at 20% after earning £10,000 a year, but we pay less attention to the fact that a sole working parent faces a 65% deduction rate when they earn over £3,000 a year.

For people who receive universal credit and pay income tax, the Chancellor’s £600 a year increase to their personal allowance is welcome. That would boost their income by £42, but the same increase in work allowance would increase their income by £390.

Even the Institute for Fiscal Studies has weighed into this debate, arguing:

“In-work benefits provide a more precise and cost-effective way of supporting low-earning working families than changes to direct taxes.”

The freezing of work allowance is profoundly misguided and effectively cuts the benefits of workers on low incomes. What happened to making work pay? What we need is a work allowance to help to ensure that those in work have a better chance of lifting themselves and their families out of poverty. We need the power in Scotland to change work allowances in Scotland, so that we can help families to help themselves out of poverty as they go out every day to earn a living through increasingly difficult times.

Universal credit does not help some of our poorest households, but much could be done by increasing work allowance and making work pay. This could be one—only one—of the tools that could help to combat the scandal of those in work having to rely on food banks to put food on their tables and feed themselves and their families. Scotland needs powers over the work allowance element of universal credit—no ifs, no buts.

I draw the Committee’s attention to the letter in The Herald today, which has already been mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Banff and Buchan (Dr Whiteford). It is a letter from the third sector in Scotland protesting against the socially divisive and damaging impact of the UK Government’s cuts of a further £12 billion in social security spending—cuts which, despite attempts to rewrite history, the Labour party signed up to prior to the general election. [Interruption.] These cuts—[Interruption.] Let me put the cuts in context. In the pre-election debate the hon. Member for Leeds West (Rachel Reeves) said that the Labour party was not the party of people on benefits. I notice that there is no retort to that. These cuts first and foremost—