Scottish Welfare Powers

Patricia Gibson Excerpts

Tuesday 20th March 2018 Westminster Hall

[Bill Grant]

I do not think that I would pass judgment on the private sector system based simply on that one example. You can pick out poor examples from any system. Any identified problem will be rectified. The Government have been rectifying issues over a long period of time.

[Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP)]

Are you seriously coming to the Chamber today and telling us that since you have been elected, no constituent has come to you to complain about the way their applications for DWP assessments have been treated? Is that what the hon. Gentleman is telling us? If he is telling us that, it must be the only constituency in Scotland where that is the case.

[Bill Grant]

I respect the hon. Lady’s intervention, but for clarity, I never indicated or suggested—sorry if you have interpreted it as such—

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[Mr Sweeney]

I agree that the complexity of the social security system should not be underestimated, but none the less we should have committed at the outset to the objectives and the vision that we wanted to see, which we share. Surely they should live up to their rhetoric on this issue.

[Patricia Gibson]

The hon. Gentleman says that the Labour party has been leading from the front on this issue. In the light of that statement, I ask him whether he regrets, and would like to apologise for, the fact that 184 members of his party abstained on the Welfare Reform and Work Bill in 2015, thereby letting through £12 billion of welfare cuts.

[Mr Sweeney]

I am afraid that is a total misrepresentation of what Labour was voting for in that case. If anything, the SNP should apologise for abstaining on the Third Reading of the Tory Finance Bill just last month, when we were all in Parliament. I cannot speak for colleagues who were not elected at the time she refers to, but I can accuse the hon. Lady of that act just last month.

On the progress of the Social Security (Scotland) Bill and how complex it has been, even at stage 2 in February, Labour continued to challenge the Scottish Government to deliver a number of further improvements, which have been resisted. For example, a child benefit top-up of £260 per year was blocked by the Tories and the SNP voting together. Changes that would prevent the winter fuel payment as well as disability and industrial injuries benefits from being means-tested were backed unanimously by Labour, the SNP, the Tories, and the Greens—a good concession. Binding targets to boost the take-up of all benefits were also backed, and protection for carers from inflation—the current carefully crafted Scottish Government plans look set to save £5 million—was backed unanimously.

However, a requirement in law to secure the automatic splitting of universal credit so that women are protected from financial abuse was blocked. The competency of that is contained in section 30 of the Scotland Act 2016. The Tories and the SNP blocked that by voting together—just days before, somewhat ironically, the hon. Member for Central Ayrshire (Dr Whitford) introduced a Bill in this place on the same issue. It is an example of how the SNP talks a good game at Westminster, yet acts very conservatively at Holyrood. An attempt to secure a higher legal threshold to prosecute claimants who fail to notify a change of circumstances was also blocked when the Tories forced a vote on it.

There is clearly much more scope to improve the quality of the social security system in Scotland. The only party that has driven real change and a real defence of working people in Scotland who rely on a social security system and a safety net has been the Labour party at every stage. We should not forget that the only force that will ensure that we have real, radical change for disabled people, that we tackle poverty, and that we reinforce the safety net will be a Labour Government at Holyrood in Edinburgh, and at Westminster in London.

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[Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP)]

I will try to be brief. I am bewildered about what this debate is supposed to achieve. The hon. Member for Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock (Bill Grant) agreed with many of the points we put to him—for example, that social security is a human right. I wonder what the Minister will think of that.

We will take no lessons from the Labour party. It does not matter what the hon. Member for Glasgow North East (Mr Sweeney) says, £12 billion-worth of cuts on welfare went through in 2015 and 184 Labour MPs abstained. That is why we need to have people in here protecting Scotland’s interests.

The hon. Member for Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock talked of the need for mitigation. By definition, if we need to mitigate Tory cuts in Scotland, that suggests that the Tory cuts should not be taking place.

In setting up the new welfare system in Scotland, there has been widespread consultation. For the hon. Gentleman to suggest that it is some dark secret and nobody knows what is happening is clearly nonsense. His colleague, Adam Tomkins MSP, talked about the welfare legislation in Scotland as being landmark legislation and the great consensus around it. It is a pity that the hon. Gentleman cannot agree with his Tory colleagues in the Scottish Parliament. Adam Tomkins MSP congratulated the Scottish Government on bringing the legislation forward in the form that they did. It is very clear that the only people who are standing up for the people who find themselves relying on benefits—

[Andrew Rosindell (in the Chair)]

Order. I call Stephen Kerr.