Building Safety Bill

Patricia Gibson Excerpts

2nd reading
Wednesday 21st July 2021 Commons Chamber

[Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP)]

I want to come on to the written statement by the Secretary of State, which was delivered with breathtaking speed. Before I do so, I remind the House that my husband owns a property that might be affected by the cladding issue.

I want to focus on part 5, which includes provision to establish a new housing ombudsman scheme, with parts 1 to 4 focusing on matters applicable to England and Wales only. While housing is a devolved responsibility, consumer affairs are not, which creates challenges for the housing ombudsman scheme. There are benefits in delivering that scheme on a UK-wide basis, because there are concerns about the fact that 90% of new homes have defects and a quarter of those who move into a new home are unhappy with aspects of the property.

The existing new homes standards code is industry-led and voluntary, so it is welcome that it will be replaced with a mandatory, statutory code to ensure similar standards to those that developers are obligated to meet, topped by an ombudsman, which we hope will have teeth, with powers to require builders to resolve issues or face fines, which will give the code authority and credibility. It is important that the system is established on a UK-wide basis, because builders operate across the UK, so it makes sense to have a single body of rules and standards to ensure improvement across the board.

Because that uniformity across the board will benefit consumers across the UK it is important that Governments across the UK, and in all parts of the UK, are at the table and that their voices are heard. We all want a raising of standards in the building of new homes, so that is an eminently sensible way forward, and we expect that legislative consent would be requested from the Scottish Government. That consent would be granted if it were in the interests of the people of Scotland. Consent and dialogue with the Scottish Government must not be a box-ticking exercise—it must be genuine.

I want to say a few words about the written statement that was delivered breathtakingly quickly today. The Secretary of State said in his statement that addressing the risk in the cladding of properties should focus on “management and mitigation” instead of “costly remediation work”. We do not know what he means by “costly”, because people in some properties below 18 metres face costs for the stripping of cladding that are more expensive than the properties themselves. We are told in the statement that costly remediation work can be challenged, but there is no detail about how that can be done, so the content of the statement is quite vague. We are told that lenders have welcomed this advice, but we do not know how quickly those affected by the cladding issues will see a change in the behaviour of lenders and insurers.

Has the Secretary of State had specific talks with the insurance industry? Has he had discussions with the Association of British Insurers? We simply do not know, as the statement does not tell us. In February this year, the Secretary of State said:

“Insurers should be pricing that risk correctly and not passing on those costs or even profiteering”.—[Official Report, 10 February 2021; Vol. 689, c. 342.]

However, having read the written statement, it is not clear whether he had any dialogue with insurers before publishing it.

The statement says that there will still be repayment costs not exceeding £50 a month, so there is still no cap and we do not know what the final bill will be for those affected. I wonder whether the Secretary of State has actually been looking at or taking an interest in what is happening in Scotland. The Scottish Government have moved towards a single building assessment for properties that may be affected by the cladding issue, which will provide clear evidence of the total need for remediation. That allows the Scottish Government to identify the buildings that are at risk and inform their owners exactly what measures need to be taken.

That could release people from safety and mortgage lending concerns. It may, in the end, save homeowners hundreds of thousands of pounds that they might otherwise have had to pay for individual external wall fire review forms. The cost of the single building assessment is to be met by the Scottish Government, and once it has been established, remediation will be targeted to the buildings most at risk. That is an important innovation. I see echoes of it in what the Secretary of State has said today, but it was too vague for me to be sure.

It is interesting that today’s statement focuses on buildings below 18 metres. When we debated this very issue at the end of June, I challenged the Secretary of State, because The Sunday Times reported that a key civil servant was recorded telling fire engineers that 18 metres was the cut-off point in the first place because the Government

“haven’t got time to come up with a better number”.

I wonder whether the randomness of 18 metres is behind much of what we have heard today, but of course no one in the House, except the Secretary of State, has had time to properly digest it.

The new housing ombudsman in the Bill is welcome, provided that it is implemented in a way that is respectful of devolution and, in the future, prevents some of the shocking problems we have seen in the cladding scandal, which has turned so many lives upside down. It is important that we understand that the powers of the housing ombudsman will not be retrospective, so it offers very cold comfort for those living through the cladding and fire safety nightmare right now. I fear that the Secretary of State’s statement today has done nothing to properly address that.

For all those reasons, it is clear that more needs to be done to address the current safety scandal, which the Bill does not do. This scandal continues to blight the lives of those living in flats that they have been told are dangerous, but we are told today, “Well, do you know what? That might not really be the case. We’ll need to think about it a wee bit more and talk to the banks.” That is not good enough.

People are living in flats that cause them concern, we still do not have any answers on insurance, and we still do not have any proper insight into how the scandal will be resolved fully. The £5.1 billion that the Secretary of State likes to trumpet does not even touch the sides, and whatever else the Bill offers, it offers nothing to the people currently living in homes that are making them lose sleep and that they cannot sell.

Building Safety Bill

Patricia Gibson Excerpts

Report stage
Wednesday 19th January 2022 Commons Chamber

[Bob Blackman]

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Sheffield South East (Mr Betts), the Chairman of the Select Committee. He and I have spent many happy hours poring over this draft Bill, in the first place, and, going forward, different reports.

Essentially, there are four separate categories on remediation that fit within the Building Safety Bill. The first, as everyone agrees without question, is, for tall buildings of seven storeys and above, removing the cladding and making the building safe. The second is the buildings of six storeys and below for which the Government came up with the forced loan scheme. I am delighted to see the death of that scheme. I could never see how it was going to work, so that is good news. The other two categories are the tall buildings with fire safety defects and the buildings of six storeys and below with fire safety defects. We can all agree that the one set of people who should not have to pay for remedying this are the leaseholders, because they never designed them and they never knew anything about them before they moved in. However, this scandal still goes on. Only last week, a planning application was presented to the planning committee at Tower Hamlets for a building of 52 storeys with only one staircase as a route to escape. The building industry does not show any signs of correcting what has been done, so we have to correct it.

I take my right hon. Friend the Minister’s remarks seriously. I look forward to the amendments that are going to be moved in the other place that I hope we can then debate here. However, these are very complex areas and there are immense questions to be answered. I well remember that when we debated the Bill that became the Fire Safety Act 2021, we were told that protecting leaseholders should not be done then but we should wait for the Building Safety Bill—and here we are, right now. The crunch issue is that leaseholders up and down the country have received enormous bills. Some have made arrangements to pay; some have even paid them. They are told, “Tough—you’ve paid and you won’t be compensated as a result.” If we had moved the amendments to the Fire Safety Act, we would have protected those leaseholders, but we failed to do so.

As I have said to the Secretary of State, I welcome his commitment to resolve this issue, but I trust that when we come to the amendments on remediation, we will do two things. The first is that we will retrospectively put a date on what happens. It will not be acceptable to wait until this Bill becomes law and facilitate the unscrupulous individuals who may bill the leaseholders between now and then, which would be outrageous.

The other issue that is terribly important in this whole process is that at some stage, with regard to all the buildings that we are talking about, someone signed off on their being in accordance with regulations. Insurance covers that particular aspect, so here is an alternative solution. Given that insurance companies insured the people who signed these buildings off, and they were clearly not in accordance with the regulations at the time, let us make claims against the insurance companies that still exist and could be made to pay for this remediation. That would be a much better solution than either the taxpayer paying or robbing the leaseholders. It would at least give us some protection.

I welcome the Government amendments, and I welcome the conversion that has taken place in the Department to what the Select Committee said in the first place. We are making progress. We are almost there. We have only a little a little way to go before every single one of our recommendations has been endorsed. We look forward to that happening, and indeed to having a Bill of which we can all be proud, which protects leaseholders and protects the industry for the future.

[Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP)]

Let me begin by echoing the sentiments expressed earlier. We must be mindful of all those who died tragically in the Grenfell fire, which prompted much of the work that we are debating today.

The majority of the Bill relates only to England or to England and Wales, so I will necessarily keep my remarks on behalf to the Scottish National party short. I am sure that that will be music to many ears in the Chamber.

We can all agree on the necessity and the importance of raising the standards of conduct of developers. House buyers need to have confidence in the safety and quality of their homes, which is why the Scottish Government support the principle of the new homes ombudsman scheme proposed in part 5 of the Bill. Housing is devolved to the Scottish Parliament, who could devise their own provisions for a Scottish system, but the benefits of having a single system to operate on a UK-wide basis are self-evident. However, it is also true to say that the scheme must fully meet the needs of Scotland, so this Bill ought to confer greater powers to Scottish Ministers, similar to those of the Secretary of State. It is essential for part 5 to acknowledge and respect the devolution settlement. The Secretary of State and, I am sure, the Minister will understand that SNP co-operation in relation to the new homes ombudsman scheme in no way diminishes our opposition to the form and intention of the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020.

It is fully expected that meaningful consultation will minimise the risk that the ombudsman scheme is contrary to the wishes and aspirations of the Scottish Government, so that homeowners in Scotland can benefit from it. If that turns out not to be the case, the Scottish Government have the option to withdraw from the scheme without contractual penalties and other repercussions. No one would wish to see that happen, and we need to be assured that the Minister and the Department will work, and continue to work, in a collaborative, consultative and collegiate way with the Scottish Government to deliver the scheme for Scotland.

In that spirit, I say to the Minister that given the confusion and delay over issues of cladding, nearly five years since the tragedy of Grenfell, we need a clear commitment that he will work constructively with the Scottish Government to provide clarity about consequential funding, so that the Scottish Government can plan their response appropriately. Will he tell us how much funding there will be, and when it will be delivered to Scotland?

I understand that the Secretary of State has committed himself to working with the Scottish Government on these matters—and no doubt the Minister has done so as well—but certainty is important. I am sure the Minister will understand that, so I am keen to hear what he has to say about the timing, levels and delivery of the funds that Scotland can expect.

[Felicity Buchan (Kensington) (Con)]

Let me begin by paying tribute to my constituents and the community of north Kensington.

I welcome the Bill, and I welcomed last week’s announcements that leaseholders in intermediate buildings would not have to pay for the remediation of cladding and other fire safety defects. I understand from the Minister that this will be incorporated in legislation in the other place. I want to stress how crucial it is that we get that right: it is critically important that we have robust legal protection for leaseholders. I welcome the statement that those on the Front Bench will listen to all good ideas, but it is important for us to be able to put this into practice quickly and effectively. I ask the Minister, as did my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) and the Chair of the Levelling Up, Housing and Communities Committee, the hon. Member for Sheffield South East (Mr Betts), to ensure that when the Bill comes back to this place, there is the opportunity for full debate and full scrutiny.

A number of Members said that some developers and freeholders have been behaving very badly, and I have such a situation in my constituency. Leaseholders in Collier House have paid for the remediation and the building is eligible for an existing fund, yet the building owner, outrageously, will not apply for those moneys. He does not want to get involved because the leaseholders have already paid. Such situations are clearly wrong in terms of how people should behave. I ask the Minister, as colleagues have, to ensure that we look to remedy situations where leaseholders have paid and take that into consideration. We need to find solutions, because they paid thinking that they were doing the right thing, and they may now be out of pocket as a result.

In conclusion, I very much welcome the direction of travel. However, it will be critically important to get the proposals right in the other place, and I ask that we have the opportunity for full scrutiny of what the other place decides.