Draft Direct Payments to Farmers (Reductions) (England) Regulations 2023 Draft Agriculture (Financial Assistance) (Amendment) Regulations 2023

Debate between Oliver Heald and Mark Spencer

Tuesday 28th February 2023 General Committees

[Mark Spencer]

I thank my right hon. Friend for that intervention. We are getting very much into the detail of the personal management decisions farmers will have to make. Farmers may be thinking that they need to use a chemical to kill those aphids, but there is quite a lot of evidence to suggest that if they have put in insect buffer strips and give the lacewings and ladybirds three or four more days, those lacewings and ladybirds will go and do the job for them.

If you will allow me to digress, Mr Hollobone, I spoke to a gentleman called Martin Lyons—I am sure he will not mind me giving his name—who farms in Cambridgeshire. He had such an event in a field of beans. He went to inspect the field, but on arriving he saw that the beans were swarming with aphids. When he got back to the yard, the sprayer—the machine he was going to use to apply the chemical—was broken. By the time he got the part, four or five days later, he thought he had probably lost the crop, but when he went to look at it before applying the chemical, he found literally tens of thousands of ladybirds all over the beans, and they had removed the aphids. He was able to return the chemical to the company that had supplied him and save the money.

We have become a little bit too dependent—I say this as a farmer myself—on chemical solutions, when nature often finds the solutions for us. We need to do more of that and to get back to some of the practices we saw in the ’30s and ’40s, working with nature rather than against it. That is what many of the changes we are bringing in will deliver.

To turn to the second part of today’s proceedings, there are two schemes to which the financial assistance regulations are applicable—he says, looking for inspiration from his officials to his left. It is really important that we understand that we want to motivate people to do the right thing. My right hon. Friend the Member for North West Hampshire referred to avian influenza, which is slightly different, in that it is a notifiable disease. There may be other examples, such as bovine viral diarrhoea in cattle. If people become aware that that disease is in a herd, they will not want to trade with it. Where farmers want to be part of the scheme and engage in data recovery, we do not want those who are being supported, who do not have BVD, to be penalised because people think their being on the list of those who have received support to prevent the spread of the disease means they have the disease in their herd—we do not want them to be blacklisted. Anecdotal evidence shows that if people are allowed to keep the matter private, they are much more likely to come forward and report any issue they have, rather than hide it.

[Sir Oliver Heald (North East Hertfordshire) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that regenerative agriculture is valued, particularly in my constituency, through the Groundswell Festival? I do not know whether he has ever attended, but it is interesting to see the new techniques that are being pursued, which actually go back to the old techniques he referred to. I endorse what he has been saying, because if farmers have cover crops and use their sheep or cattle to eat them, what they see coming through, as exemplified by Groundswell, are fantastic worms and wonderfully improved soil. Will my right hon. Friend say a word more about that, because it is very important in North East Hertfordshire, where we have a cluster of farmers who are pursuing those techniques?

[Mark Spencer]

I thank my right hon. and learned Friend for his intervention. It is worth putting on record the fact that the farmers I talk to want to do this stuff and move in the right direction. They want to embrace working with nature. That is something they have done for generations and want to continue to do, and we are delighted to be able to support them in that direction.

My right hon. Friend the Member for North West Hampshire made a flippant remark about a trampoline park standard. Technically, it would still be possible today for DEFRA to come forward with a trampoline park standard, if it was minded to. However, public scrutiny, along with that provided by my colleagues and by members of the Opposition, would probably make it unlikely that we would proceed with such a standard. We need to trust the democratic processes we have in place and the scrutiny available to us.

I hope I have covered the points that hon. Members have raised, and I thank them for their genuine interest in this topic and their questions.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That the Committee has considered the draft Direct Payments to Farmers (Reductions) (England) Regulations 2023.

DRAFT AGRICULTURE (FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE) (AMENDMENT) REGULATIONS 2023

Resolved,

That the Committee has considered the draft Agriculture (Financial Assistance) (Amendment) Regulations 2023.—(Mark Spencer.)