Oliver Colvile
Main Page: Oliver Colvile (Conservative - Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) Broadcasting (Radio Multiplex Services) Bill
Oliver Colvile ExcerptsFriday 13th January 2017
(7 years, 11 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Broadcasting (Radio Multiplex Services) Act 2017 Read Hansard Text
Kevin Foster (Torbay) (Con)
I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.
It is a pleasure to bring this Bill to the Floor of the House today for what I hope will be a constructive, interesting, informative and perhaps even entertaining debate. I should like to thank the Clerks in the Public Bill Office, my own staff and the radio team at the Department for Culture, Media and Sport for their assistance in putting this draft Bill together. It is interesting that we are here to discuss this on Friday the 13th. Some people say that it is lucky for some, and I hope that it will be a lucky day for the Bill, given the issues that some Bills face when trying to make progress on a Friday.
In the course of my remarks, I intend to explain the details of the Bill and tell the House how I hope to create an effective piece of legislation that will bring real benefits not only to listeners of DAB radio but to the creative and media industries, as well as giving many community stations a real chance to go digital. I hope that the legislation will also create a diversity in our media that does not currently exist. It is also worth making it clear that the Bill relates to the whole United Kingdom, given that broadcasting is a reserved, not a devolved, matter. It is therefore slightly disappointing to note that certain Members who are normally keen to make points on Bills that do not relate to Scotland on a Friday are sadly not here today to debate this one, which directly affects Scotland. Some aspects of it would give opportunities to parts of rural Scotland to develop services that do not currently exist and to create a real community feel. The Bill could benefit all corners of the United Kingdom.
The first point to consider when looking at any proposed legislation is whether it is needed. My hon. Friend the Member for Bury North (Mr Nuttall), who is in his place, regularly and rightly asks this about any Bill. What is it about? What will it achieve? What benefits will it bring? Passing legislation is not just a matter of academic debate.
I want to explain what a multiplex is. I suspect that many people who saw the Bill title on the Order Paper will have wondered what that word meant. It is possible to get extremely technical when describing this system, but the House of Commons Library briefing note handily explains it in non-technical jargon:
“A DAB multiplex can be broadcast from many transmitters, all using the same transmission frequency”.
This is the key difference between digital and analogue transmissions. Analogue transmissions are broadcast on individual frequencies, and neighbouring transmitters cannot use the same frequencies as each other. Many local radio stations advertise themselves with their frequency number—94.8 FM, for example—because with analogue, it is critical for people to know the frequency. Digital radio, however, broadcasts using the names of the stations because it is effectively using the same frequency for many different stations. It is a different type of broadcasting.
Oliver Colvile (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Con)
Forgive me, but I am not a particularly clever man and I therefore have difficulty understanding the technical side of all this. Could my hon. Friend remind me: is FM part of that analogue or is it a digital thing? What is it?
Kevin Foster
FM is an analogue transmission, and most community stations currently broadcast on FM. With DAB, people tune in using the name of the station. On a digital radio, we search not for a frequency but for a station name. You never know, with more opportunities for digital radio there could even be a station called Hedgehog DAB Community Sound— a local station dedicated to promoting the benefits of having the hedgehog as our national animal. I know that my hon. Friend takes that matter very seriously and that he has brought it to the House on several occasions.
Many of us probably already listen to digital radio and will wonder how this Bill fits in, what its purpose is and what small-scale multiplexes are. Three national digital radio multiplexes currently broadcast between 10 and 19 stations each. Those are the most popular stations—I will not give them any promotion as they really do not need it—that can be heard in virtually every part of the United Kingdom. Different transmitters across the country broadcast a selection of services that does not vary from location to location, and about 97% of the UK’s population can receive one of the three national multiplexes. There are also 58 local commercial DAB multiplexes, covering approximately county-sized areas. Each broadcasts up to 14 commercial radio stations as well as the relevant local BBC station for the area. According to figures from the Library, over 90% of the UK’s population should be covered by one of those multiplexes. In my area, for example, I can receive BBC Radio Devon and some of the commercial services that currently operate on DAB.
However, one instantly realises that there is a real gap between all that and what most people recognise as the third layer of radio: community radio. We have national radio, regional radio and then the small-scale community radio stations that many people know and love.
Kevin Foster
Just to be clear, the Bill makes no move towards turning the whole sector from analogue to digital. The Bill does not seek to end the process of seeking community FM licences, which will remain. The Bill is about creating an option to enable people to put community radio on digital broadcasting systems. There is a debate to be had in Parliament at some point in the future on options for a fully digital radio broadcasting system. However, that is not what we are discussing today—that is a debate for future years.
In fact, with technology moving on, we do not know whether we will have separate broadcasting systems in the future. I suspect that many of us use, for example, the BBC’s iPlayer Radio app, through which people can turn a dial to select a station and listen to live broadcasts. That does not come through a DAB system, FM, medium wave or anything else; it comes via a device’s internet connection. There will be a debate on it in future, but I make it clear that the Bill is not about forcing anyone to broadcast on DAB or about bringing the analogue broadcast system to an end, or even about envisaging that; it is about giving a practical option to broadcast community services on digital radio. That is what the Bill is about, although my hon. Friend is right to say that there have been suggestions that, at some point, the UK might look to move to digital.
Norway says that it will be the first country to switch off its analogue radio transmissions, and there is some debate in the industry about whether Norway is genuinely about to start doing that, apart from in some areas of the larger cities. Fundamentally, that is partly a debate for another day. If the House ever were to consider ending the analogue broadcast system, we would clearly need to provide a practical and affordable solution for community and smaller-scale operators to broadcast on digital radio so that we do not annihilate the whole sector. The current licensing system for digital radio would do just that. If we went to a totally digital solution, it would leave the larger operators but take out literally hundreds of community radio stations.
The Bill is about giving community stations an option for digital; it is not about forcing them on to digital. Crucially, the Bill is not about forcing any of the existing multiplexes or existing infrastructure to carry community stations. Existing multiplexes are not affected by the Bill, and it does not seek to force them to do anything. The Bill creates a timely option. It might contribute to future changeover, but that is not the intention.
Technology is moving on and the days of large-scale equipment being needed to broadcast a reliable radio transmission are long gone. The idea of engineers running around in white coats to fix various bits of equipment is not what small-scale radio is about any more. In some of the small-scale radio trials, the main broadcast was being run off a laptop. It is even theoretically possible to run a broadcast off a smartphone. Self-broadcasting has become huge on the internet. YouTube and Facebook Live are both showing a range of changes and a range of diverse programming opportunities that people would never see on a broadcast channel, which says to me that more people out there want to hear such content. The follower rates for content that is self-broadcast over the internet point to how community broadcasting and people expressing personal experiences that connect with others now really mean something—in some cases, to more people than watch certain broadcast television shows. Therefore, providing that opportunity in digital radio makes eminent sense.
In response to an intervention, I touched on how we can see the impact of digital TV in opening up a range of choice and opportunities to deliver new community services, and digital radio could be the same if we give an option to have smaller-scale multiplexes. As has been said, we do not know where technology will go next, and it is almost pointless to spend a morning speculating on whether we will still have broadcasts, whether we will do this via the internet and what further integration will take place involving wearable technologies that may or may not benefit from this type of Bill. However, what we fundamentally know is that the technology exists to enable effective, community-run, small-scale, digital radio broadcasting, and that is what this Bill seeks to create a licensing structure to allow.
With any technology, we may say, “Yes, it exists but is it practical?” Between 2014 and 2016 the Department for Culture, Media and Sport funded a programme of work by Ofcom to look at the potential of a new software-based approach to enable small-scale DAB broadcasting. The work included 10 technical field trials in towns and cities across the UK. The three main aims of the trials were: to test how well the small-scale DAB technology worked; to test how well the technology lends itself to several parties co-ordinating their services through the transmitter; and to give the market a chance to learn about small-scale DAB and the potential opportunities it presents.
I am sure that some Members will have studied the Ofcom report published in 2016 before coming to today’s debate. The report confirmed that the trials had achieved all three aims. First, the technology worked and was reliable in terms of transmission. Secondly, the 10 trial operators gained significant experience, with some innovating further in how this technology could work. Thirdly, and most importantly, across the 10 areas, 70 unique radio services are now being carried, the majority of which are totally new to DAB. This was not about seeing existing choices disappear or providing competition with them; it was about giving a new choice.
Oliver Colvile
I am curious as to how much it would cost a community organisation to apply for a licence, because that needs to be taken into account, too.
Kevin Foster
In terms of the process to apply, we must remember that this is mostly focused on the infrastructure, so it would be possible for a couple of community groups to club together or for an organisation to seek to provide a small-scale multiplex to help facilitate the growth of creativity in their area. A university would be the classic example of an organisation that might provide a small-scale multiplex to broadcast a student radio station and potentially provide an opportunity for other community-based stations. Let me be clear that the Bill also makes sure that protections are in place for those who operate existing multiplexes. As has been said, this is not about creating a new competitor for them; it is about creating an opportunity for existing community services to go to digital. I will say a bit more about that later in my speech.
Pauline Latham (Mid Derbyshire) (Con)
I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Torbay (Kevin Foster) on making such an informed speech and on giving so much of his time to multiple interventions from many hon. Members on the Government Benches. I am sorry and very surprised that there are no Back-Bench Members present on the Labour Benches.
Pauline Latham
Resigned, yes.
Every constituency could be affected by this sensible Bill. I also pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Torbay for all his hard work and efforts to bring forward this debate on such an important subject.
Pauline Latham
I entirely agree. For instance, the Derby Telegraph is sadly losing its readership, despite being a good local paper. I do not think that the web is conducive to local newspapers, because they have to include so much local advertising, which intrudes on the reports. If they could also broadcast, that would produce more competition and help other local media to get in on the act.
Oliver Colvile
Many local newspapers are now trying to move firmly towards much more activity online. Does my hon. Friend think that not only could a community licence be given, but that such content could appear on the internet too?
Pauline Latham
Yes, I am sure that that would be the case. I thank my hon. Friend for intervening at that point.
The compelling case is that all small stations could make a success of using digital radio. In fact, the initial trial was so successful that it was extended for two years. Alongside tests of viability and effectiveness done within the UK, the international use of small-scale DAB offers another indication of the benefits of the expansion of this new technology. It has been used successfully abroad, with stations using it on air in Switzerland and France.
Given the established track record, we can see that the Bill would be helpful. It would make a tangible difference for an estimated 450 stations that could take advantage of small-scale DAB. We heard from my hon. Friend the Member for Torbay, and from interventions, that even hospital radio stations could get in on this and widen their listenership, which I think is incredibly important.
Seema Kennedy
That is an excellent point. Of course, we have huge geographical and demographic differences with Norway, but we should be watching and learning, and seeing what happens there—I completely agree.
Oliver Colvile
Is perhaps the reason Norway is moving away from any analogue form of radio that it does not broadcast “Test Match Special” on a regular basis?
Seema Kennedy
Probably, although I would not dare to make any comment on cricket to my hon. Friend.
David Morris (Morecambe and Lunesdale) (Con)
It is a pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for South Ribble (Seema Kennedy) and I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Torbay (Kevin Foster) on securing this spot in the Chamber. I have to declare an interest: I used to write songs in the 1980s, which always cheers up my hon. Friends.
Rebecca Pow (Taunton Deane) (Con)
I am delighted to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Morecambe and Lunesdale (David Morris). It is amazing what we discover about our colleagues during such debates. I am intrigued to find out some of the songs he wrote. Perhaps he could share that with us later.
Having spent very much of my life as a broadcaster and journalist, with many years’ involvement in radio stations of every kind, from community to local, commercial and BBC national radio, I am delighted to support my hon. Friend the Member for Torbay (Kevin Foster) in introducing the Bill. I congratulate him on all his work in introducing the Bill, in particular on the very clear case he has made today. He has made it very clear even for those of us who do not understand very much about the technicalities.
I reiterate the comments made by my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Derbyshire (Pauline Latham). It is disappointing that the Opposition Benches are so empty, particularly the Scottish National party Benches, because the Bill will help the very remote areas where it is difficult to receive a signal. [Interruption.] There are two Welsh MPs on the Labour Front Bench. The Welsh are well-represented, but the House gets my point.
I am a very keen supporter of local media, including our local newspapers. I am particularly keen to support local radio stations, which are targeted by the Bill. Anything that can be done to facilitate them must be applauded. Like my hon. Friends the Members for South Ribble (Seema Kennedy) and for Bury North (Mr Nuttall), I am a fanatical radio nut. I literally go everywhere with my radio. In our house in Taunton Deane, we have a radio in almost every room and we go from one room to the other switching them on. Members might think that that is a bit sad, but we cannot live without them.
Oliver Colvile
I confess that I drive to and from my constituency for two reasons: I want to listen to the cricket over the course of the summer; and, more importantly, I want to listen to “The Archers”.
Rebecca Pow
I welcome that intervention, because I am a complete Radio 4 addict. I listen to the World Service when I wake up in the middle of the night and I could not be without my radio because of “The Archers”. Sometimes I listen to the same episode three times: at lunchtime, the repeat in the evening and the long episode on Sunday. That is quite sad, but I am never quite sure what episodes I have missed! I am also a very big local radio fan. I do exactly as my hon. Friend does: as soon as I get back to my constituency in my car, I switch on the local radio so I can catch up instantly with the local news.
The way we listen to radio is changing. Television, which I spent many years working in, has already undergone a big transformation. Radio is now going through a similar change. Almost half of all radio listeners use a digital platform and approximately 60% of UK homes have at least one DAB radio. For Christmas a few years ago, my husband gave me a DAB radio for the bedroom. This year’s Christmas present from my husband was a DAB system for the kitchen to replace the old system—I am not sure whether the new system was for him or for me. It has taken me quite a long time to work it properly, not because it is not a good radio, but because I now have to put my glasses on to be able to see the touch-button thing—it is terribly sophisticated, and black and beautiful.
As we have heard today, DAB systems are becoming increasingly important as features in cars, which is where I listen to my local radio. For the uninitiated, I must clarify that when I talk about DABs I am not talking about fish. As a mum with three children, we eat a lot of dabs. They are terrific fish to feed children with and they are very, very cheap, but we are not talking about dabs today; we are definitely talking about radio. I will come on to explain why, as has been mentioned by many colleagues, small radio stations are so vital and why the Bill will really help them to have a better future, particularly the under-resourced and underfunded stations.
Local stations offer highly localised news that we do not receive from national stations, or from regional stations now that they are covering bigger and bigger areas. The Government have made the welcome announcement that Taunton will be granted garden town status. Local radio has provided a terrific place for the public to discuss what they think about that. What better place to carry out a poll on which day we should choose for Somerset Day? There was a lot of audience interaction across all the stations on that issue. They are also well placed to promote the local initiative Art Taunton, of which I am a patron, which encourages culture and art in Taunton. There are many great things about Taunton, but we need to up our offer of art and culture. Perhaps the Minister could pay a visit to talk about Art Taunton and maybe even do an interview on local radio.
Local radio is important for all those things, but it is very important, as my hon. Friend the Member for Morecambe and Lunesdale said, in times of crisis. The local and community radio stations were absolutely invaluable in 2013-14, when huge areas of Somerset were flooded. Local radio was the linchpin in transmitting the news, with people phoning in and volunteering to help. Local radio played a key role in co-ordinating where people should go and what they should do. Local radio is also very important in transferring information when it snows. All the local schools use local radio to tell people whether they will be open or closed, and everybody turns on their radio to find out. It is an invaluable service.
If we think of local radio, we cannot help but think of travel reports. Local radio is where all hon. Members get their travel information. It is where I find out what is happening on East Reach in Taunton during rush hour and whether to use the busiest road in Somerset, the A358, which goes right through my constituency. If one hears that that road is log-jammed, one avoids it, so it is a marvellous service. I hope we will soon never have to hear such messages on our local radios again, because this week the Secretary of State for Transport reiterated his commitment to upgrading the A358.
I would like to mention a couple of the excellent community radio stations in my constituency. Tone FM, based in Taunton, is very good for traffic news. It has an audience of 22,000 people, which is incredible for a town community station. It has great live broadcasts, despite operating on a shoestring. I used to do a regular gardening slot. We had a lot of fun, but I hope we also managed to impart a lot of knowledge. I would take something in and invite the audience to guess what we were talking about. One time I took in a giant elephant garlic, a terrific thing to see and to use in cooking. Similarly, much guesswork went on over my Jerusalem artichokes. I now regularly go in to provide updates on what is going on in Parliament. We have an awful lot of interaction and many people listen to the podcasts. It is a great way to disseminate information. I applaud all the people who work for Tone FM, in particular Darren Cullum who gives up hours of his time. The station could not run without them.
Another excellent community station is 10Radio, based in Wiveliscombe on the far western outreaches of my constituency.
Oliver Colvile (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Con)
I have not yet listened to the omnibus edition of “The Archers”, although I have tried quite hard. I look forward to hearing it on Sunday. I, too, congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Torbay (Kevin Foster) on an excellent Bill, which I shall be delighted to support later should it be pressed to a vote.
I must declare an interest. When my father left the Navy, he immediately became head of outside broadcasting at Rediffusion Television, the forerunner of ITV. Moreover, as many Members may know, my brother is the cricket correspondent at Sky Television, and before that—some while ago—he was a newsreader on Radio 4. Reputedly, he went on air at 1 pm one Saturday and said, “BBC radio news at one o’ clock. A Russian submarine has been found south-east of Swindon.” It should have been Sweden, but it turned out to be Swindon instead. It was one of those things.
I must make a confession. In the 1980s, I was the Conservative party agent in the London borough of Merton. I worked for a woman called Angela Rumbold, a Minister at the Department of Education who was my great mentor. She later went to the Home Office. Before she became a Minister, however, she was very much involved in a campaign connected with an organisation called Radio Jackie. Radio Jackie was a pirate radio station which initially broadcast on Sundays, and then began to broadcast on other days. At the time, there was a real sense that the Department of Trade and Industry did not want more radio stations than were being proposed. Provision was very limited: there was the BBC, and I think that by that time Capital Radio had come on board as well.
The issue was really important then, and today feels a bit like Groundhog Day to me. There were times when the DTI was so stringent that it decided to try to raid some of the pirate radio stations, and it actually succeeded in raiding Radio Jackie, which was owned by Tony Collis. My governor asked me to make sure that he was aware that the equipment could be taken away. We have moved on an awfully long way since then. The advent of digital radio enables us to provide a better service, and, more important, a greater service that provides more choice, and I believe that the Bill will make that possible.
I pay tribute, obviously, to my local BBC radio station, Radio Devon, and the wonderful Gordon Sparks, who unfortunately has not been commentating much on Plymouth Argyle, who, as Members may know, ended up drawing against Liverpool. We look forward very much to seeing what happens on Tuesday, when the replay will take place at Home Park. I understand that the tickets have been selling incredibly well, and that the sales could add £1 million to Plymouth Argyle’s exchequer.
I also pay tribute to Simon Bates, who has just left Radio Devon. Every time he interviewed me, he wanted to talk about my great campaign for hedgehogs to become a protected species, and I am delighted that he did. [Hon. Members: “Hear, hear!”] One would not want to miss an opportunity to mention that during an informal debate of this nature. Sadly, Simon Bates has decided to stand down, but I pay great tribute to him; it was a delight to be interviewed by him, and I thoroughly enjoyed myself.
I must pay tribute to Radio Plymouth, which is probably the best example of a local community radio station in the city as a whole, and covers a series of issues. One of the great things about community radio is that it can cover specific community events. In 2020, Plymouth will be celebrating Mayflower 400. The Mayflower left Plymouth after a journey into Torbay and other places, and those on board went on to found the American colonies. We need to provide good community coverage of the commemoration of that event, so that people can become engaged with it.
We all know that at the time of Ascot or Wimbledon, for example, specific radio stations are set up to cover those events. These are really useful opportunities for local communities to promote their activities and ensure that the people in those communities become engaged with them. Indeed, if these ventures are successful, they could become another version of the Liberal Democrats’ “Focus” leaflets or, for that matter, our “In Touch” leaflets.
I am delighted to see the Minister for Digital and Culture, my right hon. Friend the Member for West Suffolk (Matt Hancock), in his place today. He is a great cricket fan—he has played cricket with me, which was great fun. That was in India, where I took the opening bat’s wicket, much to everybody’s surprise. We ended up having a great time. I know that Newmarket is in his constituency, which holds big racing events. There are specific ways in which we could do this, including covering specific campaign issues. I am also aware that there are a number of community websites, such as SW19, which I know about from the days when I was taking a historical interest in what happens in Merton. People write into those websites regularly and put comments on them about the local community activities. That, too, is important.
I have one question to ask of the Minister. I am acutely aware that the Bill is about infrastructure rather than about some of the other details, but when the provisions are being developed, could he ensure that the licences will be affordable to local communities? There would be nothing worse than if these new arrangements were prohibitively expensive and the local communities could not afford to set up their own stations.
Kevin Foster
I hope that my hon. Friend will be reassured to hear that, when Ofcom carried out its trials, many small operations did get going. The purpose of my Bill is to enable such arrangements to be set up on a more permanent basis across the country. The cost of the current multiplexes clearly excludes any community operations.
Oliver Colvile
I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention.
It is important that we develop an infrastructure that is not too expensive for local communities. Before I was elected to this place, I did some work on behalf of one of the mobile phone operators, and I am aware that we still need additional infrastructure for those services too. I know from travelling from Paddington down to Plymouth on the train that we still need much better mobile phone coverage. I cannot get on to the internet or even take telephone calls half the time, because the mobile phone coverage is not particularly good. But why should not local communities be able to put their stuff on to the mobile phone mast network? That is also an important consideration.
Will the Minister also give us an assurance that community radio stations will not be abused by other political parties and that they will comply with the Representation of the People Act in providing balance, especially during election campaigns? I would be very nervous about the possibility of biased reporting at such times. I personally do not think that the BBC is particularly biased, and it is important that we do not give an opportunity to other people, who do not necessarily agree with everything we say, to use community radio against us in a party political manner.
Thank you very much indeed, Mr Deputy Speaker. This has been a pleasure and a delight. It has been fantastically informal debate with some entertainment, some of which I suspect I have provided myself.
Maggie Throup (Erewash) (Con)
It is a pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport (Oliver Colvile). I should also like to congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Torbay (Kevin Foster) on securing this debate on his Bill today. This is obviously an issue of great importance to those of us here in the Chamber and, I hope, to many other Members as well. I should also like to add my name to the list of people who are fans of “The Archers”. I, too, have been known to listen to each episode three times, although I must put on record the fact that I no longer have time to do that.
Oliver Colvile
Is my hon. Friend aware of a wonderful organisation called Archers Anarchists, whose members believe that “The Archers” is not so much a soap opera as a fly-on-the-wall documentary? Among its activities is the annual Sammy the Cat lecture.
Maggie Throup
I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. I was not aware of that, but I am not surprised.
The issue that we are discussing today is of great importance to my constituents, especially those who live in the southern part of my constituency. I represent the constituency of Erewash, which has a community radio station called—not surprisingly—Erewash Sound. What is surprising, however, is that not every resident of my constituency can tune in to the station.
The Erewash Sound Community Interest Company was granted a five-year community radio licence in April 2008 and began its full service on 96.8 FM on Saturday 6 March 2010 from studios in what was an old school in Ilkeston. It is important to understand that it is a community interest company, which is a not-for-profit organisation. It is run by volunteers for the benefit of the people of the borough of Erewash. The running costs are covered by the sale of advertising, by sponsorship and, when the company can secure it, by grants, donations and fundraising.
Community radio across the country faces certain issues that continually affect their sustainability, and we are talking today about one way in which we could improve the sustainability of community radio operators. I am led to believe that the Community Radio Order 2004 places restrictions on community radio. Those include limiting broadcast power levels to quite low levels and stipulating that community radio stations can accredit only up to 50% of their total revenues to advertising and sponsorship. Indeed, some local radio stations cannot even sell any advertising or receive any sponsorship; they have to get their money from elsewhere.
Erewash Sound is currently restricted by the so-called 50% rule, but it has even greater problems. It was allocated a power allocation of just 25 W on 96.8 FM. That is just one point away from transmitters in Ashbourne to the west and Grantham to the east that broadcast commercial radio stations on 96.7 FM, making it difficult to separate the stations.
The 96.8 frequency is also used by BBC Radio Wales’s Welsh language service, which has a reported 125 kW of power, going up to 250 kW in some parts, and the transmitter is located in south Wales. Since its launch, Erewash Sound has suffered spurious and intermittent interference from the BBC transmitter, the effects of which can be severe, interrupting or even obliterating Erewash Sound’s transmissions in some parts of the borough. I am sure that people do not mind listening to the Welsh language programme, but I am afraid that not many people in Erewash will be able to understand what is being said. The problem is about differentiation and people being unable to listen to the local radio station. I understand from the operators that the effects are worse in fine weather—I reassure hon. Members that we have lots of fine weather in Erewash.
When Erewash Sound challenged Ofcom over the frequency allocated, it was told that 96.8 FM was the best frequency it could offer, which is really quite poor. Erewash Sound was also informed that 25 W was the usual power level allocated to community radio, yet there is evidence that other community radio stations have been allocated 50 W—double the power—or even 100 W. The problems are starting to build up. Low power and interference from the BBC transmitter result in over half my constituents being prevented from tuning in to Erewash Sound. Residents in Long Eaton struggle to tune in, and the problem is worst in the southern part of the area. Residents in Stanton by Dale, a village on a hill between Ilkeston and Long Eaton, can tune in, but people living beyond the hill are unable to. The low power and the bandwidth are restricting the transmission of this fantastic local community radio station. However, that does not prevent Erewash Sound from promoting the station and supporting residents in the south of the borough, even though they cannot hear it. The station lives in hope that things will change one day—hopefully as a result of this Bill—and that everyone in Erewash will be able to hear what Erewash Sound has to play. The outcome of today’s debate will determine whether all my constituents are able to enjoy the sounds of Erewash Sound.
I want to describe how Erewash Sound contributes to the community right across Erewash. In the summer months, Erewash Sound can be found at the fairs and carnivals in the two major towns of Ilkeston and Long Eaton. Erewash Sound provides outside broadcast facilities at the League of Friends of Ilkeston Community Hospital summer fair and the Ilkeston and Long Eaton carnivals. In fact, last summer I was invited to judge the floats at Long Eaton carnival alongside one of the presenters from Erewash Sound. I was so relieved to have a fellow judge, because I did not want to upset anybody when judging such fantastic floats that people had put a lot of effort into. He blamed me for the ones that did not win and I blamed him for the ones that did not win—it was a dual-purpose approach. Erewash Sound also actively supports the local Treetops hospice, including allowing the hospice’s business club to meet on its premises so that people can see what the radio station involves. It is really trying to reach out. Other hon. Members have already alluded to the importance of community radio as a training ground for budding presenters, and Erewash Sound has an academy that is open to local people regardless of age or experience.
It is completely wrong that while Erewash Sound supports my entire constituency, a great number of constituents cannot enjoy the pleasures of our local community radio station. The broadcasting gets off to a lively start every day with the breakfast show, hosted by Paul Stacey—my fellow judge at Long Eaton carnival. Next up is “Morning Plus” with David Allen, who will still be broadcasting now as he goes from 9.30 am to 1 pm. On a recent visit to the station, I had the pleasure of sitting in with and being interviewed by David live on air. We had a really good chat and a phone-in—the radio station is really interactive. David’s show finishes at 1 pm and is followed by “The Afternoon Show”, “Homeward Bound”, “The Alternative Show” and then “The Late Show”. For the insomniacs among us, the “Night Owls” show provides non-stop music throughout the night, but I always try not to listen to it because I like my night’s sleep.
Many members of the public in Long Eaton, and in the part of the constituency that cannot receive the community radio station, have told Erewash Sound directly that they really want to listen to the radio station. They want the proposed changes to be made so that they can tune in.
In my maiden speech back in July 2015, I spoke about how people in Ilkeston think that the residents of Long Eaton get everything and how the people in Long Eaton think that the people in Ilkeston get everything. Well, I usually say that they are wrong, because both towns get everything, but in this case Long Eaton residents are right—they do not get Erewash Sound. It does nothing to bust the myth when a community radio station called Erewash Sound cannot be heard in Long Eaton. In fact, a major part of the original bid for the community radio station back in the early 2000s was based on the premise that it would help to bring the two towns together, yet technology has so far stopped it doing that. The low wattage and the constituency’s topography have got in the way.
The Bill would allow an affordable DAB licence that is accessible to community radio stations such as Erewash Sound. My discussions with Ofcom have resulted in my reaching the conclusion that an affordable DAB licence is the only option available for Erewash Sound to be able to fulfil its goal of bringing together and broadcasting to my whole constituency. I support the Bill and hope it completes its next stages without delay so that Long Eaton can enjoy the delights of Erewash Sound.
I finish by thanking everyone at Erewash Sound for providing such great entertainment and for supporting the whole community through its community action, even though it does not broadcast throughout the whole constituency. Erewash Sound does a fantastic job, and it is all voluntary. I am sure that people in Long Eaton want the Bill to be passed as quickly as possible so that they can enjoy the same benefits as Ilkeston.
Andrew Bingham
Actually, I was referring to the former Member for Sedgefield and the former Member for Witney, but it still works. The former Member for Witney did actually come to High Peak Radio, but more of that later.
We need to allow the likes of High Peak Radio to move into the digital age, and the Bill puts down the framework that will allow it to do that without the huge expense it would currently face. The benefits for local radio are huge, and many of them have been highlighted today.
I look at what High Peak Radio has done for High Peak in the years it has been broadcasting, and I see that it brings so many benefits. We talk about community and community charities. We have things such as Blythe House hospice in Chapel-en-le-Frith; High Peak Radio is a great supporter of that great charity, as well as many others.
I have done events in High Peak: I have walked round High Peak and golfed round High Peak—I have done everything round High Peak for charity—and High Peak Radio has been a fantastic supporter. It is not that it has enabled me to do those things—I have to do the walking or whatever it might be—but it gets the word out.
On one of the first charity walks I did, I walked round the boundary of the constituency. I was walking out of Buxton when a car pulled up. The driver opened his window and said, “There’s a tenner, Andrew.” I said, “What’s that for?” He said, “I’ve just heard on High Peak Radio that you’re walking the boundary of the constituency for charity. There’s your 10 quid.” That 10 quid went to the charity.
That is just an isolated instance of how High Peak Radio helps support so many people doing so much good work for so many charities. People cannot afford to have an advert on the big commercial radio stations, let alone the television, but High Peak Radio provides them with a vehicle and a conduit to get the word out and to encourage support. That, in turn, promotes community cohesion. We talk a lot about community cohesion in this place, and that is a great way of promoting it.
Somebody talked earlier about isolation, which affects a lot of people. We all think that, nowadays, with satellite television and all these channels, people do not listen to the radio any more. Well, in High Peak, they do. I know lots of people who have High Peak Radio on because, yes, there is music, but they also get the local news and it makes them feel part of their local communities. They are sometimes elderly people who cannot get out as often as they would like, and it makes them part of the town or village they live in. Whether it be Chapel-en-le-Frith, Charlesworth, Dove Holes or New Mills, they know what is going on in their town and area. They know, for instance, that on Christmas day an organisation did a Christmas lunch for people. It is a great way of promoting community cohesion and dealing with the social isolation that we in this place try to find many ways of dealing with.
As we sit in here, I do not know what the weather is doing, but it is probably pretty snowy in High Peak. Buxton is one of the highest towns in England, and we have the highest football ground and the highest pub in England, all of which will be covered in snow. With High Peak Radio, people can put their local radio station on. If they put a national radio station on, they would probably hear of Buxton only two or three times a year when we are snowed in. They hear about the Cat and Fiddle and the Woodhead pass, because those roads are often blocked with traffic.
At this time of year, snow is always a problem on those and on many other roads. If someone is looking to get from Glossop to Buxton this morning, they will not get that information on BBC radio news but they will get it on High Peak Radio. One of my constituents, Jamie Douglas, cannot get to work today because of the snow. For anybody in High Peak who is watching this, I am very sorry but my constituency office is closed because my staff are snowed in in Glossop. How do people work that out? How do we know where we can go and where we cannot go in High Peak on a day like this when we get more snow than anybody else? People turn to High Peak Radio because the road and traffic news goes on all the time.
My hon. Friend—an old friend—the Member for Corby (Tom Pursglove) talked about sport. I was glad he mentioned that. In fact, I was not that glad because I wanted to mention it first, but hey ho—he beat me to it. We have lots of football, cricket and rugby teams in High Peak.
Oliver Colvile
My hon. Friend may recall that he organised a game of cricket up in Burton which I was delighted to play in. It was a great game.
Andrew Bingham
That is right, although I must correct my hon. Friend: it was actually in Buxton, which, by the way, saw the only case of a day’s cricket being lost due to snow in this country, in June 1975.
Yes, we organised a charity cricket game where the parliamentary cricket team played the “Emmerdale Farm” 11. My hon. Friend drove some 300 miles to play and acquitted himself exemplarily, as he always does—as he did in India, as he remarked earlier. High Peak Radio broadcast from the ground and interviewed the players. On that day we raised, I think, just over £10,000 for the air ambulance. We could not have done that with such success without the backing of our local radio station, because it introduced the coverage.
Among our local football teams, we have Buxton, where High Peak Radio often broadcasts the game live if it is a big match. Glossop North End has been in the FA Vase final twice in recent years. That is a huge event for High Peak, and it is encouraged by High Peak Radio, which sends someone down to Wembley to commentate live on the game. High Peak Radio has actually broadcast from within this building: when I was elected to this place in 2010, we managed to arrange for it to broadcast from Central Lobby. This is great because it makes people in High Peak feel connected with each other. Those who could not get to Wembley to watch Glossop North End in the final could tune into High Peak Radio and feel part of the day. You will find no greater supporter of local radio in this place than me, and that is why I take an active role in the all-party group.
Local radio stations also support local businesses. I ran a small business for many years, as have many colleagues here. We cannot afford to advertise on the television or, perhaps, Radio Manchester, but High Peak Radio provides an opportunity. Whether it be a small shop, a garage or a small trader such as a plumber, it gives them an opportunity to advertise in the local area—an area that they can serve efficiently, quickly, and, more often than not, at a lower cost than some of the national companies.
Jo Churchill
I readily agree, and congratulate my hon. Friend on getting included in the autumn statement the money to repair the monument in her constituency.
After all we have said about work experience, volunteering and so on, I want to give a shout-out to a member of my staff who goes home from her day’s work here to the community radio station for the Harrow area. The station is the result of a merger back in 2012 of Northwick Park hospital radio and Harrow Community radio, and operates out of the hospital. It is primarily about the community and is run entirely by volunteers. It provides befriending and wellbeing services, and volunteers spend time on the ward with patients and tailor the shows to their patients. It is a chance for volunteers to gain hands-on experience in the totally new field of radio broadcasting.
Oliver Colvile
I am told that BBC Radio Hereford & Worcester has not yet been mentioned in the debate; I want to ensure that it appears in Hansard as well.
Jo Churchill
I am delighted to give my hon. Friend the chance to have those words written in Hansard.
Many broadcast journalists and ambitious young broadcasters use the Harrow community radio station as a platform to get involved. It runs fundraising events, sponsors community activities and brings local news to local people—and it is all done by volunteers.
Only yesterday, I heard that Radio Caroline, which most Members are probably too young to remember, has applied to Ofcom for a licence to broadcast on AM across East Anglia. The station’s ship, Ross Revenge, will be moored in the Essex estuary, so only the northern part of Suffolk will be able to receive DAB broadcasts. It would be good to extend that ability to broadcast across the piece, along with any new business ventures.
Whether it is someone’s source of news, music, travel, politics or a little bit of something different, the radio is also their friend, as my hon. Friend the Member for High Peak said. When I was raising a small family, “Woman’s Hour” used to mark the time through the day. When I was recovering from having been quite poorly, when I heard the afternoon play I would think, “I’m nearly at teatime.” I have many other memories. I am so sad that I even take my radio gardening with me, as I potter about to pull a few weeds—
The Minister for Digital and Culture (Matt Hancock)
It is a pleasure and an honour to be called to the Dispatch Box to respond to this debate.
Like everybody else, I put on the record wholeheartedly my thanks to my hon. Friend the Member for Torbay (Kevin Foster) for introducing the Bill. He gave a great exposition of the Bill and set out in good detail what he hopes we can achieve. I also put on the record my thanks to the officials in the Department for Culture, Media and Sport who have worked with my hon. Friend on the Bill and prepared me for it. We have in DCMS an incredibly dedicated radio team who care deeply about the success of radio in this country, and I thank them. I had proposed to try to answer directly many of the questions that had been asked in the debate, as well as set out, quite briefly, what is in the Bill, but because that was done so well by my hon. Friend at the start, I shall be relatively brief.
I am grateful to all Members who have contributed to this debate. Perhaps we should start with the position of the Labour party and the Labour Front-Bench team. It was, I think, the maiden performance, at length, from the Dispatch Box by the hon. Member for Tooting (Dr Allin-Khan). She was elected only in June and gave a great performance with lots of questions. So impressive was her performance today that I wonder whether she, like an increasing number of her friends, will be opting for a job outside Parliament soon.
I will go through the hon. Lady’s questions in detail. I was really impressed that she started off with the important matter of rural areas. It was addressed in the trials, and in Ofcom’s response to the trials. We will go through the technical details that will lead to the orders in a further consultation. Given the hon. Lady’s interest and the fact that we have support for this Bill from all parts of the House, I am sure that the question about rural areas will be properly addressed.
On the frequency plan, the hon. Lady seemed to imply that it was not possible to vote in support of the Bill until that plan was in place. I caution her against such an approach, as the process has already started. The frequency trials were very positive. Of course further consultation will address the technical details, but those technical details are a matter for the orders and statutory instruments that follow the Bill rather than the principles that we are debating today. The same is true about the comments made by Radiocentre and the Community Media Association. Those are matters for the regulations.
The hon. Lady rightly raised the matter of skills. The Ofcom report was clear that the trials delivered exactly the sorts of skills that we should be looking for in this space. She also talked about money, saying that this all comes down to funding. Well, I caution her against that view. Although Labour thinks that everything comes down to public funding, we think that human ingenuity is quite impressive, too.
As it happens, in this spending review period funding for community radio support was increased and guaranteed out to 2020, but it is amazing what people can achieve if they are given the permission to do so. As my hon. Friend the Member for Torbay set out many times in the course of his speech, this Bill is ultimately a permissive piece of legislation: it is about allowing people to do things that, currently, they cannot do. Therefore, it is about a further unleashing of human ingenuity.
The hon. Lady asked, perfectly reasonably, why this Bill and the clauses in it are not part of the Digital Economy Bill. The reason is that we wanted to see the conclusion of the trials before putting out the legislation. We published the Digital Economy Bill back in the summer, but the trials had not concluded at that point, so we did not want to put these details in that Bill. There have been odd noises from the Opposition Benches about why the Digital Economy Bill was not delayed. I do not think that we can delay in bringing forward the transition to digital, whether in this or the other Bill.
The hon. Lady also raised a question that had been mentioned by a number of others, including my hon. Friend the Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Wendy Morton), about the matter of public only or public and private. I know that some of her friends on the Front Bench think “public good, private bad” but we on the Government Benches reject such an approach, because we think that there can be a contribution from both public and private. That question will be addressed in the consultation. Again, this Bill is permissive on that basis. It does not require either public or private backing. However, there is an important balance to be struck in the consultation, which is that, ultimately, small-scale digital radio is about enabling communities and community support. We do not want it to be completely gobbled up by large commercial providers for whom there are other options. We want to ensure that there is space for the innovative and for the very small. As my hon. Friend the Member for Taunton Deane (Rebecca Pow) said, people need to be able to start a radio station from their garden shed. That is what this is all about. There is a reasonable case for limiting the commercial element, but there is also a case for small commercial operations, and we will address the balance of those cases in the forthcoming consultation. I hope that addresses the points made from the Opposition Front Bench.
Let me now address some of the questions asked by other Members. My hon. Friend the Member for South Ribble (Seema Kennedy) asked how the masts will work in practice. Of course, individual radio stations will not necessarily have to put up their own masts; the whole point is to have a network of masts. The masts can go on to existing masts that are used for other things, and they can go on to buildings. In fact, we have just relaxed some of the planning regulations on masts. Like my hon. Friend, I represent a rural constituency. I had the great privilege of opening our local digital mast, which has gone up next to a school in north Suffolk, which means we can now get BBC Radio Suffolk on digital radio. The technology is there and the planning system is in increasingly good shape to allow this. Therefore, although a radio company could put up its own mast, there are also ways to start up a radio station without having to go down that hardware route.
My hon. Friend the Member for Morecambe and Lunesdale (David Morris), who is a great supporter of radio, provided not only insight in the debate, but entertainment. In fact, one could say that as well as the music, he has provided the lyrics. He made a passionate case about the positive impact of radio in times of distress, such as the serious storms and flooding in his constituency just over a year ago. He paid tribute to his local radio station in what I thought was a very balanced way. There is no reason to think that DAB will be any less reliable and resilient during storms. By allowing for more localised digital content, we can get even more local information in times of distress. I hope that he is reassured on that point.
My hon. Friend the Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport (Oliver Colvile) made an important point about political balance in community radio. Of course, anyone in broadcasting has to follow the law of the land and the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000 and ensure that their output conforms to what is required. He made a strong case for radio, mostly on the grounds of cricket. I remember well the time he astonished not only the entire Indian parliamentary cricket team, but the rest of the British parliamentary team by taking a wicket in Dharamshala. I also recall spending an awful lot of time recovering the ball from the boundary.
Oliver Colvile
I must say that I, too, was deeply surprised. My right hon. Friend might also recall that although there were only 250 people in the grounds, the match was being watched by 19 million people on Indian television.
Matt Hancock
I have no doubt that all 19 million were totally astonished. It just shows that if you put on what might be regarded as niche broadcasts—in this case, a cricket match between the UK and Indian Parliaments—sometimes many, many people will watch.