PSNI Policy: Journalists’ Data Obtained under Warrant

Nick Hurd Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd October 2019 Commons Chamber

[The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mr Nick Hurd)]

My right hon. Friend the Member for Haltemprice and Howden (Mr Davis) joked about this being the latest in a series of hospital passes, but he is of course absolutely right that he has drawn to our attention an extremely serious matter, not only because of some of the core principles that it evokes but because it reminds us of one of the darkest and most terrible moments in that most difficult of times. Listening to him, I was reminded of how many times in my years in this place I have listened to him speak with great passion and conviction about the importance of defending press freedom and civil rights. I do not think there is a more doughty champion of those issues in this place, and it was a pleasure to hear him speak again to that critical agenda. I do not suppose any Member would disagree with him about the need to protect the freedom of the press to unearth uncomfortable truths. That is at the heart of our democratic process.

To some degree, I am frustrated, Mr Deputy Speaker, because there are real limits, limitations and challenges in responding to this debate for the Government. The first, of course, flows from your clear strictures on the need to comply with all the guidance, policies and procedures in respect of avoiding comment on any live legal proceedings, which is the status of this case. My right hon. Friend is experienced enough from his time in government—in fact, I am sure he has stood at the Dispatch Box at some point in the same position as I am in—that I know he will not want me to do anything to prejudice the fair and impartial conduct of proceedings. I am sure that other Members will fully respect the judicial process and its independence.

My right hon. Friend’s remarks focused on the policy of the Police Service of Northern Ireland in respect of journalists’ data obtained under warrant, and he raised both general points of principle and a range of specific issues. I listened carefully to what he said, and of course the case is subject to legal processes, but I join him, the Secretary of State and others in wanting to register on this occasion our respect and support for the Police Service of Northern Ireland, particularly at this most challenging time. I could not have a better impression of the leadership and officers I have met. They have an incredibly difficult job to do and we thank them for it.

Of course—I speak as a former police Minister for England and Wales—many of the wider issues raised tonight are operational issues for the police themselves to speak and respond to, and Ministers must respect that independence. Although matters of general principle must of course be debated in the House, I suggest that we must collectively avoid saying or doing anything that could undermine that process or undermine community confidence in policing in Northern Ireland.

I want to say some things about scrutiny and accountability of the police service, given the thrust of the comments of my right hon. Friend. I have some experience of the accountability of the police. Arguably, there is no police service in the United Kingdom, or even the world, that is more heavily scrutinised than the Police Service of Northern Ireland. A wide, carefully considered framework of accountability exists to ensure that all aspects of policing practice are fully scrutinised. Central to that scrutiny is the locally appointed Northern Ireland Policing Board, which was reconstituted this year at the direction of the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, who is in his place next to me, to ensure that full scrutiny of PSNI’s activities could take place in the continuing and regrettable absence of a Northern Ireland Executive. My right hon. Friend will be aware that the board had not, from the collapse of the devolved institutions in January 2017 to the point where the UK Government took action, been able to fully fulfil its statutory functions.

I am very pleased that the Policing Board is now once again fully operational and engaged in detailed and regular scrutiny of policing in Northern Ireland, and that is taking place at a local level, as is entirely appropriate. The Policing Board, which comprises both political and non-political members, plays a crucial role in scrutiny of the PSNI and, in doing so, helps to ensure that cross-community confidence in policing which is so critical and which I am sure that we all want to see upheld, because it is central, of course, to the wider peace process in Northern Ireland. I note, as I am sure my right hon. Friend knows, that both the former and the current Chief Constable of the PSNI have appeared on numerous occasions before the Northern Ireland Policing Board to discuss data retention, operation updates and other related issues. In responding to this debate, I do not intend to rehearse their comments, as they are a matter of public record. It is for them to comment on these matters, although I note that they, too, have been studiously careful to respect the principle of sub judice where that is appropriate.

I wish to note in this context the work of the Police Ombudsman in Northern Ireland. Having an independent, impartial Police Ombudsman is fundamental to public trust and confidence in policing and justice in Northern Ireland, which we know has been hard won and must not be undermined. The ombudsman is an important part of providing confidence in policing through an independent mechanism for investigating police complaints in Northern Ireland, and it is essential during these investigations that the ombudsman is able to follow the evidential trail unfettered. I know that it is a principle that the Police Service of Northern Ireland fully supports in line with both the letter and the spirit of the law. I also know that the Police Service of Northern Ireland will not be found wanting if areas for improvement are identified. This is a police force that places the protection of human rights at its core.

It is also important to note that oversight more generally of the Police Service of Northern Ireland is not a matter for Northern Ireland Office Ministers. UK Government Ministers maintain a close interest, of course, in the security situation in Northern Ireland, but the devolution of policing and justice in 2010 ensured that the devolved Executive and Assembly lead on this important function.

We have heard tonight that the matters under discussion are of a genuinely critical importance. In general terms, I would note, of course, that the right to freedom of expression, as reflected in article 10 of the convention and given further effect in the UK through the Human Rights Act 1998, is not an absolute right and does not prevent the authorities from taking legitimate and proportionate action to prevent and investigate crime. Having said that, the UK condemns strongly any attempts by Governments to restrict the freedom of the media to hold those in authority to account, or to intimidate or detain journalists for political purposes. We believe that there is nothing in recent cases that calls into question this position by the United Kingdom.

We can all point with pride to the efforts the UK Government are expending to build a global environment in which free and vibrant media can flourish. As part of our leadership on this international agenda, the UK will continue to maintain the highest standards of press freedom while retaining the right to take lawful and proportionate action to prevent and investigate crime in accordance with human rights treaties and the Human Rights Act.

Having said that, when we do come across instances like this one, it is entirely right that they are probed and challenged, that a spotlight is shone on them and that there are accountability mechanisms around them. I assure my right hon. Friend that we will continue to keep a close eye on the case and keep it under discussion. I thank him again for bringing this issue to the House today.

Question put and agreed to.