Gender Recognition

Debate between Neale Hanvey and Kemi Badenoch

Wednesday 6th December 2023 Commons Chamber

[Kemi Badenoch]

I do agree, and I agree that it has to be across the board in Government. Some of that work is already under way. But I think it goes far beyond that. This cannot be a left or right issue, and it cannot be an issue on which certain people are personally invested in their own campaigns and cannot see the other point of view; it needs to be something that we work on together, on both sides of the House. If, while I am making a technical statement and explaining our thinking, Members across the House are talking about how they are traumatised, that is not serious policymaking. We need to be able to have a proper conversation, take the heat out of the debate and speak properly, as Members of Parliament representing all our constituents.

[Neale Hanvey (Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath) (Alba)]

It infuriates me to hear people in this Chamber speak about the LGBT community as if it is one homogenous group. We are not one homogenous group, and there are many LGB and T people who oppose self-ID for obvious reasons. One of the issues that I am deeply concerned about is that many public bodies have not been observing their public sector equality duty properly. In some cases they have been erasing sex from legislation, which is outwith that duty. What action can be taken to ensure that legislation is fit for purpose and matches all the protected characteristics contained in the Equality Act 2010?

[Kemi Badenoch]

The hon. Gentleman is quite right to raise that issue. That is why I mentioned the work that we are doing on clarifying the difference between sex and gender. As I said, these terms were used interchangeably when we originally legislated in the House, which has created confusion in terms of understanding.

Public authorities should aim for clarity in what they do. Many organisations, particularly hospitals, think that removing the term “women” is more inclusive. It really is not—it is excluding. I would gently say to them that if they are using phrases such as “chest feeding” or removing words such as “mother” from paperwork and forms, they are not helping. They are making things worse and they are creating confusion. I am going to work with public authorities. The Minister for Women is also a Health Minister. We take this issue very seriously, and we will see what more we can do to provide clarity. Providing clarity is the key point.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Neale Hanvey and Kemi Badenoch

Wednesday 12th July 2023 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for Women and Equalities (Kemi Badenoch)]

The Government have published a range of advice and guidance to help public bodies comply with the Equality Act. The Equality and Human Rights Commission also publishes technical guidance on complying with the public sector equality duty. I will shortly be reissuing my December 2021 update to Ministers on how to comply with the public sector equality duty, especially when it comes to completing equalities impact assessments, and I hope that that is distributed widely.

[Neale Hanvey]

With the Met police force reluctant to investigate murderous threats towards three sitting MPs for their lawfully protected beliefs and characteristics; a convicted criminal calling for violence against women at Trans Pride incoherently defended as freedom of expression by that same force; and broadcasters, journalists, faith leaders and even the Equalities and Human Rights Commissioner for Scotland all having had their bank accounts closed for what appear to be their lawfully protected characteristics, will the Minister meet me and other affected Members to consider how we tackle this dangerous misinformation, rampant homophobia and misogyny being promoted in our institutions by organisations such as Stonewall?

[Kemi Badenoch]

I take the points that the hon. Gentleman has made very seriously, and I would be very happy to meet him. We are a free and fair society, and we must protect free speech and allow open discussion, as long as it does not break the law.

On bank account closures, banks and other payment services, providers occupy a privileged place in our society, and it would be a serious concern if financial services are being denied to anyone exercising their right to lawful free speech. I need to express this: a notice period of fair and open communication with a customer must apply in those situations that relate to termination on grounds other than suspected or actual criminal offences or when otherwise allowed by law. The Government are currently reviewing evidence on whether the existing payment services and account termination framework is operating effectively, or if further clarification is needed.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Neale Hanvey and Kemi Badenoch

Wednesday 30th March 2022 Commons Chamber

[Kemi Badenoch]

My right hon. Friend can consider Ministers suitably encouraged. I speak as an engineer who also had an apprenticeship, and I know how important organisations such as Women into Construction are. We will do everything we can to work with them and to support women into apprenticeships and engineering.

[Neale Hanvey (Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath) (Alba)]

6. What recent representations she has received on the implementation by local authorities of the provisions of the Equality Act 2010.

[The Minister for Equalities (Kemi Badenoch)]

The Equality Act’s provisions, including the public sector equality duty, apply to local authorities, and they are legally bound to implement them. The Equality and Human Rights Commission, an independent public body, is responsible for enforcing the Equality Act 2010 across the public sector, including in local authorities. The EHRC makes its own decisions on how it exercises its functions.

[Neale Hanvey]

I thank the Minister for that response. Women from my constituency and across Fife have had their coffee mornings cancelled by Fife Council officers for reasons that have not been adequately explained. Does the Minister agree that preventing women from lawfully organising and discussing matters of importance under the protected characteristic of sex forms part of an emerging culture of women being cancelled, intimidated and silenced and is deeply harmful? Does she further agree that all public bodies, including police services and local authorities, must observe the clear definition set out by the inner house of the Court of Session on the category of sex in the Equality Act, and that an attack on one protected characteristic should be considered an attack on all protected characteristics, and must be robustly challenged and cease?

[Kemi Badenoch]

I agree with the hon. Gentleman’s sentiments. I do not think it right that women should be prevented from organising on the basis of their sex. Freedom of belief and speech are vital pillars of our democratic society and no one should be silenced from expressing their legitimately held opinions. Like any public body in this country, the hon. Gentleman’s local council must have regard to its public sector equality duty in all its functions and decision making, including the case he refers to. He may wish to pick the issue up with the Scottish Government, as they are responsible for education policy of the kind we are discussing. I do not know the particular details of this case, but if he writes to me, I might be able to provide more information.

Covid-19: Disparate Impact

Debate between Neale Hanvey and Kemi Badenoch

Thursday 22nd October 2020 Commons Chamber

[Kemi Badenoch]

I know that my hon. Friend is a real champion for communities in Ynys Môn, particularly with her hidden heroes campaign. I thank her for her hard work on that and on behalf of her constituency. The current evidence is showing that there is a range of factors, which I have mentioned already, particularly occupational exposure and co-morbidities. These factors affect the whole population, regardless of race, and we need to protect the whole population. But I am also keen that we do not stigmatise ethnic minorities or make it seem as though they are carriers of the disease. Targeting specific things and saying, “This is just for black people. This is just for Asian people” will create division and stigmatise, and it will not necessarily go to the people who need it most. That is the message I would send to her colleagues in Wales. This is what we have found. We hope that they agree with us and accept this as the way to go. It is about targeting the whole population, knowing what the vulnerabilities are, and not stigmatising groups.

[Neale Hanvey (Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath) (SNP) [V]]

I spent most of my professional career in London working with friends and colleagues from the BAME communities, so it was upsetting for me to find that more than 70% of all NHS and care deaths during the first wave of covid were among the black and minority ethnic communities. Although the reasons for those deaths are not fully understood, there is some anecdotal evidence that the deployment of staff from BAME communities to high-risk or low-protection areas may have played a role in that feature. Will the Minister advise me what action has been taken, in collaboration with the Department for Health and Social Care, regarding potential structural issues in the care services to prevent any repeat of this in the second wave?

[Kemi Badenoch]

The hon. Gentleman is right to raise that issue. As he will remember, I mentioned that 95% of ethnic minority workers have had risk assessments—we have spoken about that at several points during oral questions in the House. That is the issue that they have been trying to tackle. It is important that risk factors are taken into account before people are deployed in various sectors. We know that ethnic minorities are over-represented in lower-paid parts of the NHS, and we will be tackling that structural issue. But risk assessments are the key thing to ensure that people understand their risk and that is how we will deal with that.