Pet Abduction Bill

Debate between Natalie Elphicke and Anna Firth

Committee stage
Wednesday 31st January 2024 Public Bill Committees

[Anna Firth]

Subsection (6) provides that, in relation to the three safeguard defences or exemptions set out in clause 1, as long as sufficient evidence of the defence is established, the burden will move on to the prosecution to disprove the defence beyond reasonable doubt.

Regarding the penalties for these offences, a dog abduction will be a triable offence either way. Conviction on indictment will carry a maximum term of five years’ imprisonment or a fine, or both. Summary conviction in England and Wales carries a penalty of imprisonment for a term not exceeding the general limit in a magistrate’s court, which is currently six months, a fine or both. Summary conviction in Northern Ireland carries a penalty imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months, a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum, or both. Lastly, subsection (8) of clause 1 includes definitions for “taking” and “detaining” for the purposes of the clause.

We come on to clause 2, which deals with cats. Cats have been added following a lot of work by the pet theft taskforce and the all-party parliamentary group on cats. It makes it an offence for a person to take a cat in England and Northern Ireland so as

“to remove it from the lawful control of any person”.

While the taking of a cat can be an offence, detaining a cat will not be, thus reflecting the different behaviour, with cats being more free-roaming than dogs. That definition also avoids criminalising well-meaning behaviour where a person looks after a cat that they thought was stray, abandoned or lost. That is the “Granny Meow” difference, which was much discussed on Second Reading.

As with clause 1, subsection (2) creates a mirror exemption, identical to the case of dogs, to exclude from the scope of the offence domestic disputes over the custody of a cat between partners going their separate ways. Again, as with clause 1, subsection (3) sets out a mirror defence of

“lawful authority or a reasonable excuse for taking the cat”

and again, as with clause 1, the cat abduction offence is triable either way and the penalty provisions are identical to that of dog abduction. There is no hierarchy or difference between dogs and cats.

Clause 3 is the enabling clause, which enables other animals commonly kept as pets to be protected at a later date. Clause 3 gives a power to the appropriate national authority in England or Northern Ireland to amend the Bill to extend the offences in clause 1 or 2 to include further species of animal commonly kept as pets. The power may be exercised when there is evidence that there is a significant increase in incidents of unlawful taking or detaining of animals of that species.

[Mrs Natalie Elphicke (Dover) (Con)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on this important Bill and on its cross-party support. She and I have discussed the issue of indoor pedigree cats, particularly ragdolls, which are beloved of me, Taylor Swift, Holly Willoughby and others. Can my hon. Friend assure me that, should it be necessary to extend some of the dog provisions in relation to holding indoor cats, the provision in clause 3 would allow a consideration of further extension of powers to protect indoor cats?

[Anna Firth]

My hon. Friend has been a champion for cats, the ragdoll breed in particular—what an absolutely beautiful breed it is. I can assure her that clause 2, which deals with cats, will deal in its entirety with the taking of a ragdoll cat. I do not immediately see any need to amend clause 2, but should that be necessary, my hon. Friend is right that clause 3 should enable further provisions. I thank her for bringing that point and the whole issue of indoor cats to the Committee’s attention.

Under clause 3, I was just saying that the power can only be exercised where there is evidence of not only one incident of unlawful taking or detaining of another pet, but an increasing picture. The regulations that apply the offences to other species of animal can allow for different exceptions or defences, which again brings us to the point my hon. Friend the Member for Dover was talking about. However, they cannot alter the penalties set out in the Bill.

Subsection (5) requires that the appropriate national authority consult appropriate persons before making such regulations under the clause. The appropriate national authority is defined in subsection (6) as the Secretary of State in relation to England and the Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs in Northern Ireland. Any regulations made under this enabling clause are subject to the affirmative procedure in the normal way, meaning that the draft regulations must be laid before and approved by resolution of each House of Parliament or the Northern Ireland Assembly.

We now come to the technical provisions. Subsection (10) allows regulations under this clause to include different provision for different purposes, and consequential and other standard provisions. Subsection (11) includes explicit provision to amend the Magistrates’ Courts (Northern Ireland) Order 1981 in that respect.

Clause 4 makes an amendment to the 1981 order, consequential to the penalty provisions in clauses 1 and 2. That means that a defendant in Northern Ireland who is charged before a court of summary jurisdiction with a summary offence of cat or dog abduction cannot claim trial by jury.

Clause 5 sets out the territorial extent of the Bill, which extends to England and Wales and Northern Ireland. The only exception is clause 4’s consequential amendment to the 1981 order, which extends only to Northern Ireland. However, the provisions of the Bill apply only in England and Northern Ireland.

Pet Abduction Bill

Debate between Natalie Elphicke and Anna Firth

2nd reading
Friday 19th January 2024 Commons Chamber

[Anna Firth]

I thank my right hon. Friend for making an important point. The two offences are slightly different. The offence of dog abduction will be the taking and detaining of a dog, whereas only the taking, and not the detaining, of a cat will be criminalised, because cats roam. The behaviour of the two animals is different. There is also a defence of reasonable excuse. We do not seek to criminalise the good behaviour and good intentions of old ladies and many other people.

[Mrs Natalie Elphicke (Dover) (Con)]

I am hugely supportive of the Bill. The pain, upset and grief of losing a pet in these circumstances is terrible, as has been very well illustrated. Not every cat is a roaming cat. There are some very beautiful breeds—I might say the most special breeds—such as the Ragdoll that blesses my household, that do not roam. They are indoor cats. I would be grateful if my hon. Friend could reassure me that the indoor nature of some cats, which is very similar to that of a dog, has been adequately taken into account by her Bill.

[Anna Firth]

It is absolutely being taken into account; I thank my hon. Friend for raising that important point. There is no discrimination between cats and dogs when it comes to the penalty—they are being treated equally. It is only the way in which the offences are framed that is different. I absolutely take the point, and hope to illustrate it in more detail later.

Let me complete the story. Two cats reappeared, although one, sadly, reappeared dead on the road, and the other two are still unaccounted for. These tales abound wherever we go. Debbie Matthews, the daughter of the late, great Sir Bruce Forsyth—the only host, in my opinion, of “The Generation Game”—

--- Later in debate ---

[Anna Firth]

I am almost certain that it does, but I will have to refer to my notes to be precise. Perhaps I could come back to my hon. Friend on that, but it extends wider than ownership. It is designed to encompass a vet, a dog sitter or somebody else with a role in relation to the animal in question. I hope that helps my hon. Friend.

I hope that many hon. Members in the Chamber will volunteer to be on the Bill Committee—indeed, I consider that they almost have volunteered. It is so important that we do not over-criminalise well-meaning behaviour. The situation in relation to stray dogs, where people have simply meant to provide shelter to an animal for a reasonable period of time if they believe it to be without a home, will not be caught by the Bill. In Northern Ireland, a defence will apply to a person finding an unaccompanied dog.

Most importantly, the Bill will introduce a new offence whereby if someone is found guilty of dog or cat abduction, the offender will be liable to a fine and up to five years in prison. The maximum term of imprisonment is comparable with provisions for animal welfare offences under the Animal Welfare Act 2006 and the Welfare of Animals Act (Northern Ireland) 2011. The Bill lays a marker that the abduction of our beloved pets will not be tolerated. Any distress caused should be taken into account, and the Bill will also give the opportunity for monitoring.

[Mrs Elphicke]

I would like to reflect on cats, particularly the enormously precious indoor cat breeds. In relation to the sentencing provisions, how will the distress to the animal be demonstrated to the court? Does my hon. Friend consider that there might be a victim witness statement from the owner or usual keeper, or a statement from a vet? In what way does she consider that the distress may be evidenced adequately to the court?

[Anna Firth]

My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. I cannot be prescriptive today about how that will be demonstrated, but I can assure her that there would have to be evidence. The court could not take distress into account without some reasonable evidence. Sometimes, that evidence will be self-evident. Sometimes, it will be provided by owners or passers-by. I am not suggesting that it would have to be expert evidence, but there should be some evidence for the court to look at.

Finally, I pay tribute to all the organisations that have been involved in getting us to this stage. I have mentioned the Conservative Animal Welfare Foundation; I should also like to mention Cats Protection, the Dogs Trust, Battersea Dogs & Cats Home, Refuge, Iain Dale and LBC, and of course Southend’s own Tilly’s Angels, and thank them for all their invaluable support and engagement with the Bill.

If the Bill is enacted, we will have better protections for our pets, we will have offences that duly recognise that our pets are sentient beings, we will be better able to record and track pet abduction, we will have a better deterrent, and I hope we will see a prosecution rate greater than 1%, which is what it is now. Pets are valuable and much-loved members of our family. They ask little of us in return for their love and loyalty—