Children’s Cancer Care: South-East

Munira Wilson Excerpts

Wednesday 13th March 2024 Westminster Hall

[Munira Wilson (Twickenham) (LD)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered children’s cancer care in the South East.

It is an honour to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Christopher. In 2020, Jackson’s parents received some of the worst news a parent possibly can: Jackson had been diagnosed with leukaemia, at just two years old. He soon began treatment at St George’s Hospital in Tooting; and after three years, in April 2023, he finally rang the bell that signified the end of his treatment. It was a very difficult experience for Jackson, but his family are extremely grateful for the treatment they received at St George’s Hospital. Reflecting on the experience, Jackson’s mum, Samantha, said:

“Thank you St George’s for being such a great hospital and to everyone who works there, you have made our journey so much easier to deal with because you’re the best team.”

Tomorrow, NHS England will make a decision about where to place a new children’s cancer centre, which will serve south-west London and the surrounding areas, such as Surrey, Sussex, Medway and Kent. NHS England will decide between two proposals: one submitted by St George’s Hospital, and the other by the Evelina London Children’s Hospital in Lambeth. After listening to staff, patients and others affected, I am here, with colleagues from both sides of the House, to make the case that children’s cancer care must remain with St George’s.

[Florence Eshalomi (Vauxhall) (Lab/Co-op)]

I thank the hon. Member for making a powerful speech and for referring to Jackson. Does she agree that the independence of NHS England is important, that any decision it makes tomorrow has to be based on the clinical knowledge of medical experts, that the decision must be free from any political interference and that the world-class facilities at Evelina, which the hon. Lady has seen at first hand, should be considered alongside the other hospital? Does she agree that we must ensure that the decision is independent, and that we do not undermine the public reputation of NHS England or put undue pressure on it?

[Munira Wilson]

This is not about political interference; it is about ensuring that there has been a fair, balanced and transparent process. I will talk about the process in a moment, but that is the concern. The hon. Lady talks about clinical input. The consultation, albeit that it was run in a very flawed way, had 2,500 responses—some were from clinical experts, and many were from patients and their parents—and it provides very strong evidence that St George’s is best placed and that the Evelina has been predetermined. I have nothing against the Evelina, and in fact I was just about to sing its praises, because I have had personal experience.

To make myself clear, the Evelina is a brilliant hospital that does incredibly important work in treating children. My own daughter, who is nine, is currently undergoing treatment at the Evelina and has received outstanding care. This is not about pitting hospital against hospital; it is about looking at the process and the evidence before us. As the hon. Member for Vauxhall (Florence Eshalomi) has alluded to, I would like to personally thank the medical director at the Evelina, who showed me around its excellent facilities on Monday. However, as I have mentioned, the evidence overwhelmingly demonstrates that, in this case, St George’s is best placed to deliver for this highly specialist cancer service.

Before I come to that evidence, I want to raise serious questions about the decision-making process to date. [Interruption.]

[Sir Christopher Chope (in the Chair)]

Order. There is a Division in the House. I do not know whether there will be just one Division. If there is only one, we will come back in 15 minutes; if there are two, we will come back in 25 minutes.

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On resuming—

[Munira Wilson]

To pick up where we left off, before we look at the evidence and arguments for keeping this precious service at St George’s, I want to raise the serious questions that have been highlighted around the decision-making process that has brought us to this point. NHS England first publicly expressed its preference for the Evelina proposal at the start of last year, long before it had even launched its public consultation. This has raised concerns that NHS England has created a process in which the views of patients, clinicians and patients’ families have not been seriously listened to and taken into account.

[Stephen Hammond (Wimbledon) (Con)]

The hon. Lady is quite right. I congratulate her on this debate. I have spoken to the Department and NHS England about the process, as there have been real concerns about the scoring and whether that has been based on evidence or preference. There is also real concern that clinical outcomes are not being given quite the highest priority they should be, which will be key if we are looking at the cancer survival rates for young children.

[Munira Wilson]

Absolutely. There is the point about transparency, the fact that it has been predetermined, and the point about outcomes, which I will touch on briefly in my speech.

In a consultation response submitted by Healthwatch Richmond and Healthwatch Merton, the groups concluded that the consultation design was insufficient because it “fails the legal test” for consultation and appears to have no prospect of altering the decision to award the new service to the Evelina. I am therefore keen to hear from the Minister what assessment her Department has made of how NHS England has carried out this process. Further, can she give an absolute assurance to Members that the decision made tomorrow will have been made fairly?

Regardless of the way in which it was carried out, the consultation received over 2,500 responses from affected groups, such as patients, their families, clinicians and professional organisations. Those voices must be heard, and I will seek to ensure that they are. One of the most important themes raised was specialist knowledge and experience of children’s cancer care. It is undeniable that St George’s has invaluable experience to offer: it has already been treating child cancer patients, in partnership with the Royal Marsden, for over a quarter century. Not only is that experience highly valued by patients and their families, but it has resulted in excellent outcomes, as the hon. Member for Wimbledon (Stephen Hammond) said. According to national data collected from intensive care units, St George’s children’s cancer intensive care outcomes are the best for a large unit in the UK. All the institutional knowledge, specialist expertise and professional networks that have been built over decades risk being lost if cancer care were to move away.

Another key theme that was repeatedly mentioned in responses was that the centre should be conveniently located. Travelling via public transport with a vulnerable and immunosuppressed child is both stressful and very risky, so patients and families have repeatedly stressed that a new centre must be easily accessible by car. Anyone who has lived or worked in central London knows how difficult and unpredictable driving in and out of central London can be. However, located in Tooting, St George’s is much easier to access, and has strong road links to parts of the south-east. That is particularly appreciated by those travelling from afar.

Finally, responses highlighted the importance of having most specialisms on a single site. One service that is particularly vital to child cancer patients is neurosurgery, which is required by one in four of them. Currently, out of the two options, only St George’s offers neurosurgery. According to the Children’s Cancer and Leukaemia Group, the fact that the Evelina does not currently provide cancer surgery is not an issue that can be resolved quickly, and relocating surgery services comes with associated risks to both patients and staff. In its consultation response, the British Association of Paediatric Surgeons notes that where that has happened in previous cases, a lack of support and structure has resulted in staff “leaving the relocated unit.”

Further, clinicians have shared concerns that, if children’s cancer care were to move from St George’s, other services could be disrupted, which may create unforeseen consequences for the many areas served by St George’s. By contrast, placing the new centre at St George’s would ensure that NHS services are not overly centralised, but rather evenly distributed across the region. What assessment have the Government made of this crucial clinical evidence and the associated potential risks to the cancer service and other children’s services?

The decision is such an important one because at its heart are children with cancer: a group who have dealt with the most challenging and frightening of circumstances so early on in their lives. In many cases, the children can go on to lead full lives. One such example is Zoe, a teenager who was treated by St George’s when she was just four. She has since recovered and now has dreams of becoming a children’s nurse. She says:

“I’m so grateful to the paediatric staff at St George’s Hospital for looking after me, and for always being there for me throughout my life. Thank you to the nurses who told me to follow my dreams and never give up.”

The experience, expertise and convenience that St George’s offers are extremely valued by patients and those who care for them. That must be reflected in the final decision that is made tomorrow, and that is why it is so crucial that no doubt is cast over whether the decision is being made fairly and transparently. Yet, as I have set out, the way that NHS England has handled the process means that it is very difficult to make that judgment at this point.

Last week, together with my right hon. Friend the Member for Kingston and Surbiton (Ed Davey) and my hon. Friend the Member for Richmond Park (Sarah Olney) I wrote to the Secretary of State requesting that she uses her formal powers to call in this decision should NHS England press ahead tomorrow with awarding the children’s cancer service to the Evelina; and a group of cross-party council leaders from across south-west London and Surrey have done the same.

I conclude by urging the Minister in the strongest possible terms to join that call and to support us in saying that this decision must be called in tomorrow if the Evelina is chosen, because of the serious process and clinical arguments that I have laid out today.

[Sir Christopher Chope (in the Chair)]

Back Bench speeches in this debate will have to finish by 5.38 pm.

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[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Dame Andrea Leadsom)]

Thank you, Sir Christopher. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship in what has been quite a drawn-out debate on such an important topic. The hon. Member for Twickenham (Munira Wilson) has raised an incredibly important issue. I hope she and all hon. Members accept that clinical assessment and knowledge are crucial to making vital decisions that affect children’s health at such a difficult time for them and their families.

I am responding to this debate on behalf of my right hon. Friend the Member for Pendle (Andrew Stephenson), but I will endeavour to respond to each colleague and commit to writing where necessary. The debate has understandably stirred some strong emotions, because every colleague has had direct or indirect exposure to some of the questions it has raised. I am therefore grateful to all hon. Members for their contributions, which demonstrate the huge importance to us all of getting the right outcome.

Each of us has helped a parent who has called our constituency offices seeking help at an incredibly difficult time. I want to assure everyone that each person in the Government, from the Prime Minister down, knows the importance of getting this right. That is why cancer services for children are an absolute priority. From my own work in the Start for Life programme, and in the few months I have been in my current role, I have seen a collective determination to ensure that children right across the country receive the highest possible standards of care. Children with cancer are the key priority.

The Royal Marsden Hospital and St George’s Hospital currently care for most of the children with cancer in south London and the south-east. I pay tribute to the work of those dedicated doctors and nurses who do everything they can to look after the children entrusted to their care, and I want to be clear that NHS England’s proposed changes do not reflect on the stellar service that those staff members have given and continue to give. Rather, the proposals follow advice from Professor Sir Mike Richards’ review, which made it a clinical requirement for cancer services to be placed in the same location as an intensive care unit in order to give critical life support to the most unwell children.

Sir Mike’s reasoning was simple. First, we need to end transfers between hospitals for very sick children, which add risks and stress for them, not to mention their families, during what is already an unimaginably difficult time. Secondly, while we will not compromise on safety, we need to ensure quality of care. As every Member will agree, children deserve to benefit from the very latest technology available. Thirdly, we need to ensure a seamless, joined-up approach.

NHS England has listened to patients, parents and clinical experts to hear how we might best improve their care. The NHS England process has been rigorous, and it has been immensely important for all those patients, parents and specialists to put forward their own significant insights. Last year, NHS England carried out a 12-week public consultation on two options for the future location of the principal treatment centre for south London and much of the south-east: Evelina London Children’s Hospital and St George’s Hospital. Under both options, all radiotherapy for children with cancer would be at University College Hospital.

Both Evelina London and St George’s deliver outstanding-rated children’s healthcare. They also provide outstanding-rated education in their hospital schools. Both are capable of delivering a future principal treatment centre that meets our high standards. They are also both adept at listening to children, young people and their families to improve on the care they deliver.

The experience and expertise of specialists working side-by-side with intensive care and surgical teams will make a real difference: enabling children to get care where they need it, when they need it, on a specialist cancer ward; bringing down the number of children admitted to intensive care; making it easier for different specialist teams treating the same child to work closely together; improving care for children; upskilling the workforce and supporting new kinds of research. Importantly, it will also mean that the future cancer centre will be capable of offering the most innovative and cutting-edge treatments, which may bring precious new hope for children and their families.

The centre will build on the strengths of the existing service, including high-quality care by expert staff and access to clinical trials. It will be a family-friendly centre for children and young people, at the forefront of groundbreaking research and continuing the close relationship with the Institute of Cancer Research.

[Munira Wilson]

The Minister said a moment ago that the new centre will build on the service and the experience. The point that I and many Members have made is that St George’s has that experience. While the Evelina is brilliant in many paediatric specialisms, it does not have children’s cancer experience, so what will it build on? On the point about process, it was already predetermined, as I pointed out. It has been made clear in meetings we have had that a lot of the responses will not be taken into account unless there is new evidence. The views of children, their parents and clinicians are not being listened to in the consultation.

[Dame Andrea Leadsom]

I am afraid I fundamentally disagree with the hon. Lady on that point. The consultation has been open, with an open mind and following the best principles of open consultation. I think she is taking quite a liberty to suggest it is a foregone conclusion. I do not think she is correct in her belief. It is essential that clinicians can take all the inputs from those consultations to come to the right decision.

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[Dame Andrea Leadsom]

I absolutely agree with my hon. Friends that the consultation is critical, that it has been an open consultation and that all views are being taken into account. I am grateful to them for supporting the process. As Members of Parliament and constituency representatives, we all want the best for our constituents, but in the case of clinical care, it is vital that those with specialist knowledge and understanding should be able to make such important decisions that will affect life and death outcomes for children.

The new centre will be a family-friendly centre forusb children and young people at the forefront of groundbreaking research, continuing a close relationship with the Institute of Cancer Research. The centre will lead joined-up working between different children’s cancer services so that children get proper access to care, wherever they live. Importantly, it will have many more services on site, reducing the need for some families to travel, which will be particularly helpful for children with complex needs and families that struggle to speak English.

I assure colleagues, and anyone who might be watching at home, that once the decision has been taken, there will be no sudden changes to how patients receive care. Of course, some families will naturally be worried about what the change might mean for their children. That is entirely normal, and NHS England will carefully involve every clinical team currently providing care, keeping parents and families closely updated at every stage. NHS England will encourage experienced staff to move to the future centre so that they can continue to provide a friendly and familiar face to the children they serve. No one from among the clinical staff will be made redundant in any future changes resulting directly from this decision. NHS England has met staff to listen to their views, and they assure me that that will continue.

The consultation heard from children, their carers, and families who have received the worst news. They have talked about their own experiences selflessly to try to help others. The consultation closed in December last year, and an independent research organisation published its findings in January. NHS England has taken into account every word of feedback and every inch of evidence to inform the decision-making process. NHS England leaders are meeting tomorrow to decide the future location of the centre. The meeting will be livestreamed so that everyone who is interested can hear the discussion and the decision.

In conclusion, wherever the future centre is placed, I am confident that tomorrow’s decision will offer the right outcome for our children and take all views into account.

[Munira Wilson]

Before the Minister sits down, will she give way?

[Dame Andrea Leadsom]

No, the hon. Lady will have her chance in a moment. Throughout this process, the guiding principle has always been safety, quality of care and the best outcomes for children with cancer, now and for the long term. The children and their families deserve nothing less.

[Munira Wilson]

I am sorry that the Minister would not give way again; I wanted to ask her a direct question, but I do not believe that she has the opportunity now to come back to me.

I start by thanking all the right hon. and hon. Members who have participated in this rather drawn-out debate. I particularly thank my right hon. Friend the Member for Kingston and Surbiton (Ed Davey). I thought the clinical case that he made was forensic; he went into great detail in making the compelling case of why this service should be placed at St George’s, where it already exists and is being built upon. I did not quite understand the intervention of the hon. Member for Mole Valley (Sir Paul Beresford), in which he suggested that I was insulting clinicians; I was merely explaining that it is already there and it is being built on.

The hon. Member for Mole Valley and the hon Member for Carshalton and Wallington (Elliot Colburn), who is no longer in his place, laid out the huge research opportunity we have. The Minister talked about innovative therapies. My right hon. Friend the Member for Kingston and Surbiton talked about CAR-T and all the other innovative therapies that they are already working on at St George’s. He also highlighted staffing concerns, and both he and the hon. Member for Mitcham and Morden (Dame Siobhain McDonagh) talked about the cost implications of moving the service.

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Richmond Park (Sarah Olney) and the hon. Member for Sutton and Cheam (Paul Scully) for highlighting the travel issues. I strongly agree with what they said, which came through very clearly. I want to repeat this again, because I think some Members have suggested that we are knocking the Evelina: everyone agrees that it is an outstanding children’s hospital. The point is that St George’s also has paediatric services that are recognised by the CQC as outstanding. The royal college of paediatric surgeons also recognises it as having some amazing specialities.

There is deep concern—not just from Members of Parliament and politicians, but from professional groups and local Healthwatch groups, as I mentioned in my opening remarks—that this consultation has not been transparent and fair and that the process has not been fair. I ask the Minister again: if the decision is made tomorrow by NHS England to move the service to the Evelina, will she urge the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care to call this in and have it looked at once again by Ministers so that all the very compelling arguments we have heard today on the clinical case and, most importantly, the risk to children’s cancer care and other services are taken into account? The voices of children, parents, clinicians and patient groups must be heard, and I do not believe that they are being heard at the moment.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered children’s cancer care in the South East.