Cabinet Office

Debate between Mick Whitley and John Glen

Monday 11th March 2024 Ministerial Corrections

[Mick Whitley (Birkenhead) (Lab)]

T8. How does the Secretary of State expect the civil service to function effectively for the public if the Government go ahead with headcount cuts of up to 70,000, which aim to return civil service numbers to pre-pandemic and pre-Brexit levels, and which will mean a huge loss of expertise and knowledge? What discussions has he had with trade unions about these proposals?

[John Glen]

I met several union leaders a few weeks ago. On 2 October, the Chancellor announced that the civil service would be capped at the levels that were current at that time, which would save up to £1 billion against the trajectory that was then in place. As of September 2023, there were 496,150 civil servants. It is an important Government responsibility to ensure that we have the right number of civil servants performing effectively and efficiently in public service, and we will continue to work on that.

[Official Report, 29 February 2024, Vol. 746, c. 428.]

Letter of correction from the Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General, the right hon. Member for Salisbury (John Glen):

An error has been identified in my response to the hon. Member for Birkenhead (Mick Whitley). The correct response should have been:

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Mick Whitley and John Glen

Thursday 29th February 2024 Commons Chamber

[John Glen]

I respectfully reject that characterisation. As the hon. Gentleman knows, the Government have spent £400 million of taxpayers’ money since October 2022. The arrangements for the distribution of further compensation payments are obviously being considered at this point, and, as I said during the extensive exchange that opened this questions session, that work is continuing apace, so that I can produce a comprehensive response from the Government as soon as possible.

[Mick Whitley (Birkenhead) (Lab)]

T8. How does the Secretary of State expect the civil service to function effectively for the public if the Government go ahead with headcount cuts of up to 70,000, which aim to return civil service numbers to pre-pandemic and pre-Brexit levels, and which will mean a huge loss of expertise and knowledge? What discussions has he had with trade unions about these proposals?

[John Glen]

I met several union leaders a few weeks ago. On 2 October, the Chancellor announced that the civil service would be capped at the levels that were current at that time, which would save up to £1 billion against the trajectory that was then in place. As of September 2023, there were 496,150 civil servants. It is an important Government responsibility to ensure that we have the right number of civil servants performing effectively and efficiently in public service, and we will continue to work on that.

Coronavirus Grant Schemes: Fraud

Debate between Mick Whitley and John Glen

Tuesday 18th January 2022 Commons Chamber

[John Glen]

I thank my right hon. Friend for his question. He helpfully highlights that many of these grants and schemes were very effective in getting money to the right people in a timely way. I spoke earlier to an official from HMRC, who said, “We managed to get some of the money out in six days. If we had spent more time designing in more verification, we could have made it watertight. That would have taken several months and many businesses would have gone to the wall.” That was the dilemma we faced. I am not saying we got everything right, but it was certainly done in all good conscience to try to get the balance right.

[Mick Whitley (Birkenhead) (Lab)]

The announcement that no action will be taken to recover the nearly £4 billion fraudulently claimed from the covid support schemes stands in stark contrast to the Government’s treatment of some of the poorest people in my constituency who had their benefits cut off, and who were even chased through the courts, for making the simplest of mistakes when claiming benefits.

Will the Minister concede there is a double standard when it comes to holding the rich and powerful to account, whether for breaching lockdown restrictions or even for downright fraud? Will he also commit to providing redress to my constituents who have suffered so enormously as a result of this Government’s heavy-handed approach to accidentally misclaimed benefits?

[John Glen]

I do not accept the premise of the hon. Gentleman’s question. The estimate of the amount of fraud is broadly in line with what we see in other Departments, including the Department for Work and Pensions. There is no complacency here. There is a desire to iterate our response by using insights into behaviour to examine all avenues to reclaim this fraud, and we will continue to take that approach fairly across all the schemes.