Welfare Benefits Up-rating Bill

Debate between Michael McCann and Greg Mulholland

Tuesday 8th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD)]

Sometimes when I listen to debates in the House—on a number of subjects—I wonder whether the great British public are, frankly, astounded at the lack of acceptance of the genuine economic crisis facing this nation. The coalition Government exist only because of the situation we inherited back in 2010. Last year, we found out that the situation was worse and that it would take longer to get better. We had honesty from politicians—[Interruption.] The hon. Member for East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow (Mr McCann), the Parliamentary Private Secretary, says ludicrously from a sedentary position that we created the current situation, but the great British public know full well that it was the hon. Gentleman’s party and his previous Government who created it. What an absurd statement!

The simple reality is that the current situation means that there are very difficult decisions to take. The Bill is one of them. It is a serious matter, and there have been sensible, helpful and thoughtful contributions to the debate from Members on both sides of the House, but other speeches, frankly, have just scored party political points—[Interruption.] If the hon. Member for Dudley North (Ian Austin) wants to intervene, he is welcome to do so, but he should not chunter from a sedentary position.

[Mr McCann]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Greg Mulholland]

Of course.

[Hon. Members]

He will get more time.

[Mr McCann]

That is always a danger.

Will the hon. Gentleman confirm that, since the coalition’s election in 2010, the Government have increased borrowing by £212 billion more than they said they would?

[Greg Mulholland]

The hon. Gentleman is obviously not listening. I have said that it has been made clear that getting rid of that borrowing will take longer and be more challenging. However, let us also be clear that if Labour were in government, we would be like Greece. [Interruption.] Labour Members cannot apologise and they shout people down when things that are true are said. The reality is that difficult discussions had to be made when we found out last autumn that the situation was more difficult and that further cuts would have to be made over a longer period. That would be the reality whoever was in government.

Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs (Nurseries)

Debate between Michael McCann and Greg Mulholland

Monday 15th October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr McCann]

My hon. Friend is absolutely correct. It also calls into question the decision taken—the account I was given was riddled with similar inaccuracies.

Armed with the knowledge that the HMRC rationale for the closure in my constituency was fallacious, I called Mr Falvey and explained that the arguments he had presented were plain wrong. I asked whether, in the light of reality, he would agree to my modest request to review the decision in full or in part. The chief people officer refused point blank to do so. To digress ever so slightly, it is not difficult to see why HMRC came 36th out of 37 Government Departments last year in the industrial relations league table. Perhaps it is going for 37th place this year.

After that setback, I contacted the Minister’s office to arrange to discuss the matter, feeling strongly that senior civil servants could not dismiss the concerns of elected Members of Parliament in such a shoddy manner, particularly as their decision to shut the nurseries was obviously based in full or in part on erroneous information. Alas, the Minister refused to meet me, claiming that the issue I wanted to discuss was operational. No further explanation was provided by his private office.

When hon. Members are running out of cards to play, politics can be frustrating. However, if you do not mind an “It’s a Knockout” analogy, Mr Speaker, I played my joker and applied for an Adjournment debate just before hon. Members packed up and left for the recess. Whatever gods exist, be they mortal or otherwise, my debate topic was picked for this evening. However, I did not want to wait until this evening—I wanted a resolution—and had a duty to look after my constituents and their children, so I once again pressed HMRC and set up a call with Lin Homer, chief executive of HMRC. Miss Homer was previously chief executive of the UK Border Agency and permanent secretary at the Department for Transport, where she worked on the west coast main line contract.

I spent 45 minutes on the telephone with Miss Homer on 21 September, only to find that the reason HMRC wanted to close nurseries had nothing to do with the reasons set out in Mr Falvey’s 5 September letter. I was advised for the first time that the decision was being made to rationalise the HMRC estate to save money on rent.

[Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD)]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way, for co-ordinating the letter and for showing leadership. Does he agree that one strange thing with regard to the estate is that the buildings will remain empty? That is another reason why the closures need to be looked at again, and why there should be a moratorium on them until we get the real facts so we can make a proper decision.

[Mr McCann]

I agree entirely with the hon. Gentleman— I shall expand on that in a moment.

I was advised for the first time that the decision to rationalise the HMRC estate was based on saving money on rent. Despite my reasonable request for a review and my suggestion on how to keep the nurseries open under new arrangements, Miss Homer confirmed that the closures would go ahead regardless.

The new information did not make any difference to the nursery in my constituency and others, as hon. Members have said. I shall suspend disbelief to explain why. The nursery contract is between Mapeley Estates and Bright Horizons. HMRC provides the space for free as part of its now-defunct commitment to family-friendly policies. It planned to shut the nursery in my constituency and leave 86 families—63 of them HMRC families—searching for new child care provision. What was to happen to the vacant space in East Kilbride, on which the taxpayer would continue to pay rent? Absolutely nothing. HMRC would continue to pay the full rent to Mapeley until at least 2015, the only difference being that a wonderful, fully equipped, custom-built nursery would lie empty, gathering cobwebs. Mr Speaker, you could not make it up.

In view of the new information, I made a further request to meet the Minister, and this time my request was granted. Lo and behold, a decision has now been made to keep the nursery in my constituency, and another in Cardiff, open.