United Kingdom’s Withdrawal from the European Union

Debate between Meg Hillier and Caroline Flint

Friday 29th March 2019 Commons Chamber

[Meg Hillier]

I completely agree but, above all, we must rule out no deal. We have voted in this House, yet a no deal remains a risk. No responsible Government should lead us over a cliff edge and put up fig leafs.

[Caroline Flint (Don Valley) (Lab)]

I certainly do not want to see us crash out with no deal, either. I do not support a second referendum but, if we had one, it seems only fair that the people should decide between a deal, a no deal or remain.

[Meg Hillier]

If we were to propose and pass a Bill for a second referendum, the reality is that this House would have to vote on at least five separate occasions to frame that legislation. I will not talk about such hypothetical situations.

We need to rule out a no deal. There is consensus here, and the Government need to make that absolutely clear. Parliament is coalescing, as the indicative votes process shows, around certain options, on which we will have a chance to vote on Monday and, potentially, Wednesday, yet the Government have made no commitment that they will take any notice. The votes are not binding, but I hope we will get some comfort from Ministers today about how the Government will react to those votes.

Finance Bill

Debate between Meg Hillier and Caroline Flint

Monday 5th September 2016 Commons Chamber

[Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)]

He’s still on it.

[Caroline Flint]

The Chair of the PAC has corrected me. The hon. and learned Gentleman is absolutely right; it is almost a double whammy. Customers of such companies pay for their services in good faith and expect, as both taxpayers and consumers, big companies to play fair by them and by the country in which they operate.

The PAC is not alone in worrying about how such companies organise themselves. Around the world, people and their Governments are questioning the loopholes and convoluted legal arrangements that create inaccurate descriptions of multinationals’ trading activities in individual countries. The problem is not confined to tech firms such as Google, but their massive global presence has exposed the fault lines of an old-fashioned tax structure that has not kept up with today’s online business world. Many of today’s high-tech household names were not always so big or so profitable. The investigation into Google began under the previous Labour Government, and the coalition Government continued the work to get on top of these relatively new business models, both nationally and internationally. Tax policy is not easy. Once one tax loophole is closed, another one opens up.

[Caroline Flint]

I hope so, because transparency is an important ingredient in ensuring that the rules we apply have some bite. It sometimes seems as though we are trying to catch jelly.

The whole debate has brought into question the legal and moral difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance. Companies often rightly defend themselves on grounds of working within the rules, but politicians and civil servants are often caught out by clever manipulation of those rules. That is not illegal but cannot be said to be in the spirit of what was expected.

I have no illusions about having a perfect tax system. Keeping one step ahead is a never-ending task for modern tax authorities. I welcome the Government’s introduction at HMRC of country-by-country tax reporting, which is now up and running, and I agree with the Minister’s summer announcement that those who advise individuals and companies on their tax affairs will be subject to greater accountability for their actions when wrongdoing is exposed.

However, public transparency can make a real difference in ensuring fair taxation and fair play. That is why, with the support of PAC colleagues and cross-party support from across the House, I introduced my ten-minute rule Bill in March to legislate for public country-by-country reporting. The backing I received spurred me on to try to amend the Finance Bill in June, gaining the support of eight parliamentary parties: Labour—I thank Front-Bench spokespeople past and present, including my hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton South West (Rob Marris), for their support—the SNP, the Liberal Democrats, Plaid Cymru, the Social Democratic and Labour party, the Ulster Unionist party, the United Kingdom Independence party, the Green party, the independent hon. Member for North Down (Lady Hermon), and a number of Conservative MPs, too. Oxfam, Christian Aid, Save the Children, ActionAid, the ONE campaign and the Catholic Agency for Overseas Development joined our efforts, adding an important and necessary dimension to the argument for public country-by-country reporting.

[Meg Hillier]

I, too, congratulate my right hon. Friend on her sterling work in raising this issue up the agenda. Does she agree that if the Government were to adopt this amendment, they would be setting a tone for other parts of the world? We have had a lot of interest from around Europe and elsewhere about the work being done in Parliament and by our Government, and adopting this would really set the example.

[Caroline Flint]

I agree with my hon. Friend on that. I commend her work as the Chair of our Committee and the work she has done with other public accounts committees in other countries, because there is an appetite for doing more in this area and we are leading the way. We can do that from our House of Commons Committees, but we hope today that we can give some added muscle to the Government to lead the way in this important area, too.

I talked about the charities and organisations working in the development sphere, because I am seeking tax justice not only here, but for those developing countries that lose out too. I have said it before but it is worth saying again: if developing countries got their fair share of tax, it would vastly outstrip what is currently available through aid. The lack of tax transparency is one of the major stumbling blocks to their self-sufficiency. My thanks also go to the Tax Justice Network, Global Witness and the business-led Fair Tax Mark, as well as to tax experts Richard Murphy and Jolyon Maugham, QC, who have helped me to make the case and to get the wording right to amend legislation. This proposal demonstrates the widespread view that bolder measures to hold multinationals to account are necessary.

Cost of Living

Debate between Meg Hillier and Caroline Flint

Tuesday 14th May 2013 Commons Chamber

[Meg Hillier]

Will my right hon. Friend add to her list the trap that many of my constituents find themselves in, not earning an £81,000 salary and unable to afford the £17,000 deposit on an average-priced property—generation rent trapped in an unregulated private rented sector? What comfort are the Government giving them?

[Caroline Flint]

They are offering them no comfort, and I will address that issue later, as too will my right hon. Friend the Member for Leeds Central (Hilary Benn).

Even by the Government’s own tests, they have failed to face up to the stark reality that whatever the intention, after all the cuts, pain and hardship, the plan is not working. The credit rating test was to ensure our triple A status, but that has been downgraded by not one, but two agencies. The borrowing test was to eliminate the deficit by the election, but that is £245 billion off course. Struggling families, pensioners and businesses cannot afford another two years of stagnation, so the challenge for the Government in this Queen’s Speech was to get our economy back on track, get people back to work and stop the slide in people’s living standards.

Energy Market Reform

Debate between Meg Hillier and Caroline Flint

Wednesday 24th October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Caroline Flint]

Security of supply is key, and the Energy Bill has to address that with regard to where we source our energy from and for how much. That is part of the Energy Bill, but what is so disappointing is that none of the matters that the Prime Minister gave such prominence to last week has featured in any of the discussions about the draft Bill.

People are worried about how they are going to pay their bills this winter and are sick and tired of this ridiculous soap opera in Government. This time last year the Government promised action at their infamous energy summit. What was the result? It was a campaign telling people to click, switch and insulate to save. It is fair to say that, one year on, the time has come to review that. When it comes to clicking and switching, the Government’s campaign has been an abject failure. Information that I have obtained through parliamentary questions reveals that the number of people switching energy supplier has fallen to the lowest level on record. In the quarter before the energy summit, nearly 1.2 million people switched electricity supplier and nearly 1 million more switched gas supplier, but in the quarter after the energy summit, fewer than 750,000 people switched electricity supplier and only half a million switched gas supplier.

How have the Government got on in the other area that they are keen to promote: insulating to save? Labour’s Warm Front grants helped more than 2 million households, which means that, on average, more than 200,000 people were helped each and every year. Last year, however, according to more information obtained through parliamentary questions, just 43,585 households received help from the Warm Front scheme. That is down 80% compared with our last year in government. To add insult to injury, nearly 30,000 applications for help were turned down by the Government, even though the Warm Front budget underspent by more than £50 million.

[Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)]

Does my right hon. Friend not feel that this is a bit like groundhog day? When prices went up a year ago, the Secretary of State had meetings with energy companies and there was a lot of sound and fury promising action, but nothing happened, because this Government do not care about the pound in the pocket of constituents in my constituency and elsewhere, and are fiddling while the energy companies keep putting their prices up.

[Caroline Flint]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. She was the shadow Secretary of State before me and I pay credit to her and to my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Wavertree (Luciana Berger), who was part of her team. Ever since the general election, the shadow DECC team has been pointing out concerns about rising prices. This is not new and each year there is some stunt telling us that things will get better, but I am afraid that they are not getting better at all.