Heritage Public Houses Bill

Meg Hillier Excerpts

Friday 16th October 2026 Commons Chamber

[Dame Meg Hillier]

I was talking about Hackney Church Brew Co., and many of the other independent breweries underneath the arches.

[Adam Jogee]

I am conscious that I have spoken a lot, but before my hon. Friend was interrupted by the statement she said that she would like to arrange for Members of the House to visit one of her breweries. My hon. Friend the Member for Kensington and Bayswater (Joe Powell) has said that he will happily get the first round, so may I encourage my hon. Friend to get arranging sooner rather than later?

[Dame Meg Hillier]

Everybody is always welcome to Hackney South and Shoreditch—it is the centre of the universe, although others may disagree with me. It is only half an hour by bike or public transport from this place, so I highly recommend it—a good night out will be had by all!

The new breweries and pubs are bucking the trend in hospitality, and the archway areas are becoming hubs for other businesses. High streets can be challenging, but in Hackney our high streets still do reasonably well, partly because although Hackney is often described as being very hip, cool and expensive—and that is true—it is still achingly poor. One in two children live in poverty, although thanks to the Government’s changes on child poverty hopefully that will reduce, and nearly 60% of people live in social housing, many in overcrowded conditions. The arches are part of what might be called “new Hackney”, but they build on the old traditions.

Saint Monday is an innovative brewery that combines brewing with heavy metal, so any heavy metal fans here can get a bit of real ale and heavy metal in the same place. Great Beyond taproom and brewery, another archway-based business, was set up by Ollie, Nick and John, three beer-loving friends. They do some amazing work and people can buy great Shoreditch and Hackney-made beer there. I forget which bar serves which beer—perhaps we need to do a crawl of all the ones named after Hoxton and Shoreditch? That alone would keep us busy.

The Howling Hops brewery brews on site as well, and I really like the 40ft Brewery in Dalston, which I go to every now and again. The name 40ft refers to that fact that it is based in two 20-foot shipping containers, so not arches this time. That would not reach the heritage standards set out by the hon. Member for Kingswinford and South Staffordshire, but there is interesting new heritage coming through in our breweries. Many breweries offer tours, including Signature Brew and Five Points, so if people are thinking about gifts as we approach the festive season, I highly recommend a visit to Hackney and a tour of one of the breweries. This shows the modern culture that is coming through. Some of the breweries are in heritage buildings, and the arches have their own heritage, but the challenge would be whether they qualify under the provisions set out in the hon. Gentleman’s Bill.

I want to talk a little about assets of community value. When I read the Bill for the first time, I was trying to find what was specifically different about the provisions relating to assets of community value. The hon. Member for Kingswinford and South Staffordshire outlined some of that in his speech, so I am now a little wiser to his thinking. Assets of community value were introduced in the Localism Act 2011. It provides communities with a route to nominate and retain any building or land, such as heritage pubs, that they feel

“furthers the social wellbeing or social interests of the local community”.

Local authorities are responsible for ensuring that those schemes are run in accordance with the legislation, as set out in part 5, chapter 3 of the Localism Act 2011 and the Assets of Community Value (England) Regulations 2012. That includes making decisions on whether a nominated asset meets the definition of an asset of community value, as set out in the Act.

Although I have no scepticism about the hon. Member for Kingswinford and South Staffordshire’s intent, which a lot of us share, I remain sceptical about the Bill. The Government are already strengthening the assets of community value scheme, which I am sure the Minister will go into in her remarks, through provisions in the English Devolution and Community Empowerment Act 2026. That will introduce a new community right to buy that covers some of the provisions in the Bill, including, from memory, clause 9 about how people can put in a bid to own a property. Communities will have the first opportunity to purchase an asset if it is put up for sale by its owner. They will have 12 months to raise funding and there will be an independent valuation process to ensure a fair price, so that negotiation is successful. That is close to a lot of the provisions in today’s Bill, so he is welcome to intervene and tell me why he thinks his Bill is different.

[Mike Wood]

The whole point is that it really is not different—large parts of it are copied directly from what the Government introduced for assets of community value. As I said in my opening speech, though, in most cases community groups do not go through the quite complex process of getting the building facility registered as an asset of community value until there is a direct threat that they know about, as we saw with the Crooked House and as we may yet see with pubs such as the Macbeth in the hon. Lady’s constituency, which I do not think is currently an asset of community value. If those pubs came under threat, it would almost certainly be too late for the community to respond and get the community right to buy. This Bill would make sure that that right is available from day one for these really important historic pubs in the hon. Lady’s constituency and in mine.

[Dame Meg Hillier]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that clarification. We have already talked with some passion today about the pubs, heritage buildings and heritage in our constituencies that we value, so that means that we need to push for them to become assets of community value.

I will give an example from my constituency: the Chesham Arms on Mehetabel Road, which was Hackney’s first ever asset of community value. That pub is 162 years old; it closed in 2012, and the owner at the time just assumed that it would be possible to turn it into flats. It is on a residential street—it is a traditional east London pub in a terrace. It is not very big; it is just a little neighbourhood pub, and when it closed there was an assumption that it would be easy for it to be redeveloped, but the council stepped in. At the time, the council was under Labour control—we also have an elected mayor in Hackney, although of course planning matters are not matters for the elected mayor—and it defended the Chesham Arms from redevelopment. It reopened in 2015; it is a real success story.

The hon. Member for Kingswinford and South Staffordshire is right, though, because the challenge was that that pub closed and then became an asset of community value. Learning from that example and from the comments that the hon. Gentleman has made, we all need to be ahead of the curve on this. Whether it is a tramshed that is a heritage building and has become a pub, a pub that has been there for a very long time or a coffee house that has become a pub—whatever the cultural issues are—we can push for those buildings to be assets of community value in a wider way than the hon. Gentleman’s Bill allows for. I suggest to the Minister and all colleagues that we take today as a call to arms for us to implement the essence of the hon. Gentleman’s Bill, without having to go through a quite complicated process that I think narrows the scope too much. There is an opportunity for us to broaden our understanding of what a culturally rich heritage site is, and push for assets of community value to be more widespread ahead of a threat arising, as the hon. Gentleman rightly says.

I am not going to go through all the pubs in my constituency—we would be here for a very long time, and I am aware that other people want to speak. Needless to say, I would be very happy to arrange a tour at any point, and I am sure that the various bodies I have worked with over the years on beer and breweries would be keen to help enable that. In fact, when the current Chancellor was working in the Treasury, he was instrumental in changing the taxation of small breweries to make it possible for these craft breweries to exist—breweries that create many jobs in brewing and, of course, hospitality. They still struggle at times, but they are bucking the trend compared with a lot of our other assets, so as Members, we need to be more ambitious.

We do not necessarily need to legislate for everything; the legislation is already in place, and I think we are very capable of using the legislation we have to protect the assets that hon. Members have spoken eloquently about and defended. I am happy to continue to work with the hon. Member for Kingswinford and South Staffordshire on the intent of his Bill, but I do not feel that this is the Bill to support. I think we can deliver on his agenda without passing the Bill today.

--- Later in debate ---

[Linsey Farnsworth]

As the hon. Gentleman knows, I am supportive of the essence of the Bill. Woe betide anybody who tried to take the Hurt Arms away from the people of Amber Valley. Indeed, when I come to the Pentrich revolution in a moment, the hon. Gentleman will understand why I would never cross the people in my constituency.

As I mentioned, the Moulders Arms is preserving the memory of the skilled moulders employed at the nearby ironworks at Pye Bridge, helping to tell the story of the industry that helped to build the modern Amber Valley. Then there is the Seven Stars in Riddings, built on the site of a former chapel and dating back centuries. It later found itself connected to events surrounding England’s last armed uprising, the Pentrich revolution of 1817. Local authorities gathered information and monitored unrest, siting themselves within the pub as the rebellion unfolded nearby. If only the Pentrich Brewing Co., which opened recently, had been around back then, maybe the men would not have gotten as far as to be arrested.

Even pub names that have disappeared often linger in local memory. In parts of Amber Valley, residents still instinctively give directions with reference to the Red Admiral in Codnor, despite it becoming the Poet and Castle many years ago. That demonstrates something important: heritage is not simply found in bricks and mortar. Sometimes it survives in memories, in stories and in the names that communities refuse to let go. Of course, not all pubs with community value are centuries old. Indeed, one of my concerns in debates such as this is that we sometimes risk implying that only old pubs are worth protecting or, indeed, that measures brought in with every good intention may stifle progress, particularly with buildings that have already fallen into disrepair.

The truth is that today’s community pub is tomorrow’s heritage pub. What matters most is whether it serves its community. Take the Candlemaker in Ripley. The building takes its name from its former life as a candle factory. Fortunately for the business, the owners recognised that people in 2026 have rather less need for candles than their Victorian predecessors. They sensibly concluded that wine and tapas, and bringing more people into Ripley town centre, would probably do more for our local economy than trying to recreate the candle trade. As the business owners proudly put it:

“Founded in 1830. Reimagined for 2026.”

That strikes me as a rather good description of what successful pubs have always done. They evolve, they adapt and they find new ways of bringing people together.

The same can be said for the Groovers Arms in Peasehill near Ripley. Formerly the Beehive, a traditional Victorian pub, it has been transformed into something rather different. The main event now happens not in the Victorian building, which still exists, but in a separate building at the end of the garden, which has been transformed into something beautiful. Through live music, community events and Groovefest, the pub has found new ways of serving local people and attracting visitors into the area. That adaptation, in my submission, should be celebrated, not discouraged.

Equally, some pubs thrive precisely because they combine heritage with modern community life. The Dead Poets, a village pub in Holbrook, is a multiple-award-winning pub and the current Derbyshire CAMRA pub of the year. It began life as the Cross Keys, before being extensively restored and reimagined. Today it hosts quizzes, poetry events, festivals and community gatherings, as well as serving exceptional real ale and cider. Its success demonstrates that protecting heritage is not about freezing buildings in time but about ensuring that historic places remain relevant, well used and valued by the communities around them.

Newer venues such as Mary Lou’s Smokehouse & Craft Bar in Ripley demonstrate how pubs continue to innovate. From the outside, one might assume that it is a traditional micropub, but once they step inside, they will find a large and vibrant venue with live country music, comedy nights, themed events, food and entertainment alongside its drinks offering. I recently dropped in with some members of Young Labour following a campaign session; I had a quick drink and then left them to enjoy themselves. I am in no position to confirm or deny whether any line dancing took place that evening, Madam Deputy Speaker—you would have to ask them!

The same is true of Amber Valley’s growing micropub sector. Whether it is Tom Said in Ripley or the Tip Inn in Loscoe, these smaller venues are proving enormously popular because they offer something that people increasingly value: character, conversation and community. Their buildings may not yet qualify as heritage assets, but they are already becoming community assets. While I support protecting historic pubs where appropriate, we must also focus on helping pubs survive and thrive.

[Dame Meg Hillier]

My hon. Friend is making a really important point. Newer venues are often based in community spaces and deliver the services that the clientele want. There is nothing wrong with preserving buildings, but sometimes older pubs cannot always be preserved as pubs for all sorts of other reasons —development around the area or changing demographics, for instance. This is an invidious question to ask an MP, but does my hon. Friend want to name her favourite modern pub that she thinks should be an asset of community value in her constituency?

[Linsey Farnsworth]

I thank my hon. Friend for her question, but it puts me in somewhat of a delicate position. I love all the pubs in my constituency, and I will probably be tactful and leave my response there. I am very lucky to have such wonderful pubs coming up, including a lot of micropubs, one of which Members will hear more about shortly.

We need to focus on helping all pubs survive and thrive. When I met publicans from across Amber Valley earlier this year I found people who were incredibly proud of what they do. They were proud of the jobs that they create and the role that they play in bringing communities together—but I would not describe them as totally optimistic. They spoke candidly about rising costs, changing consumer habits and the pressures facing the sector. Many told me that they were seeing drinking patters shift, as customers increasingly use pubs earlier in the evening and less frequently late at night. They are adapting, as pubs always have, but they want the Government to recognise the challenges they face.

I welcome the support that this Government are providing, including introducing community right to buy, which will give communities a genuine opportunity to take ownership of valued local assets, and banning upward-only rent review clauses in commercial tenancies, ending a practice that has too often left businesses facing rent increases, irrespective of wider economic conditions. The Government also announced a 20% reduction in business rate bills next year—a measure expected to save the typical pub around £1,000.

None of those measures alone will solve every challenge facing the sector, but together they represent practical support both for pubs and the communities that they serve. If hon. Members are now thinking that Amber Valley appears to have an unusually impressive collection of pubs, I assure them that they are correct, and any Members wishing to verify that claim for themselves would be most welcome to visit. If they do, they will find a warm Derbyshire welcome, a rich industrial and social history, and, I respectfully suggest, some of the finest pubs anywhere in the country—[Interruption.] Members can come and see for themselves! After all, there are far worse ways to learn about the history of a place than spending a day exploring the pubs that have helped to shape it.

For those unable to make the journey immediately, there is another opportunity on the horizon. On 3 November, I will have the pleasure of pulling a pint, in Strangers Bar, of Alter Ego’s own brewed cask ale, Mr Brown, produced by the fantastic team at the Tip Inn in Loscoe and selected as Strangers’ guest beer. I do hope that Mr Brown is named after our former Prime Minister; I will have to ask. I hope Members from across the House will give it a try. If they enjoy it, I hope it might encourage them to pay a visit to Amber Valley and experience the real thing for themselves.

Ultimately, that brings me back to the Bill before us. I support protecting historic pubs and protecting our heritage, but we should remember that pubs are about far more than the buildings they occupy. The best way to preserve our pub heritage is not simply to prevent demolition or conversion, but to ensure that pubs remain thriving, sustainable and well used parts of community life, because a pub without people is simply a building. It is the community inside that gives it its value, and that is why, while I support the intention of the Bill, I hope we will continue to focus not only on preserving the pubs of the past, but on securing the future of all pubs that bring our communities together.