Social Housing and Regulation Bill (First sitting)

Debate between Matthew Pennycook and Maggie Throup

Committee stage
Tuesday 29th November 2022 Public Bill Committees

[Maggie Throup (Erewash) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Edward. I think this is an important Bill. Amendment 13 and new clause 8 relate to supported exempt accommodation and temporary accommodation when provided by providers that are the subject of other parts of the Bill. The hon. Member for Greenwich and Woolwich made a very good case.

The hon. Member for Mitcham and Morden made a passionate speech, and I think we can all relate to what she was saying, because we all have examples in our constituency of providers who sound very legitimate and credible, but after they are looked into, it turns out that they are not. They are fly-by-nights who are just taking the opportunity provided by the loophole in regulations. We can all cite examples of HMOs that have been passed by councils because the councils do not have the powers to stop them. The impact on neighbourhoods is quite dire, and it really does destroy local communities.

While I appreciate the intentions behind the Opposition’s amendments, I think the better place to close the gaps in regulation would be in the Bill from my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East. This measure is obviously needed, but I think this Bill is the wrong place for it. I hope to speak later about some of the specific issues in my constituency and the importance of regulating the providers and ensuring the provisions of the Bill are met, because they are so needed.

[Matthew Pennycook]

That was an incredibly informed and helpful debate. I just want to say at the outset that we fully appreciate how complex an area of law and regulation this is. I have done enough of these Committees to know that the Minister is not going to simply stand up and accept the amendments we have cobbled together just on the basis of my speech, however good it might have been.

I will try to respond to the points made, which I take in the constructive spirit they were offered in. I do not think many of the points made get to the heart of what the amendments are driving at. I agree with the hon. Member for Harrow East: there is a plethora of regulators in housing and planning generally, and I am concerned that we are creating overlap and confusion in various ways. I will come to how that might be true in relation to the ombudsman and the regulator when we discuss clause 5, but that is absolutely a point.

The Minister made the point well: the private Member’s Bill of the hon. Member for Harrow East, the Supported Housing (Regulatory Oversight) Bill, includes a range of targeted measures to address the scandal—we all agree it is a scandal—of rogue providers of exempt accommodation and temporary accommodation in many cases. However, as I made clear, that Bill does not address this gap. The hon. Member for Erewash said that if it is not covered by these amendments, it can be done via the Supported Housing (Regulatory Oversight) Bill, but it is not in that Bill. Perhaps it will end up in that Bill after Committee stage, in which case we will be entirely happy with that being a vehicle for it rather than this Bill, but it needs to be addressed.

Social Housing and Regulation Bill [ Lords ] (First sitting)

Debate between Matthew Pennycook and Maggie Throup

Tuesday 29th November 2022 Public Bill Committees

[Maggie Throup (Erewash) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Edward. I think this is an important Bill. Amendment 13 and new clause 8 relate to supported exempt accommodation and temporary accommodation when provided by providers that are the subject of other parts of the Bill. The hon. Member for Greenwich and Woolwich made a very good case.

The hon. Member for Mitcham and Morden made a passionate speech, and I think we can all relate to what she was saying, because we all have examples in our constituency of providers who sound very legitimate and credible, but after they are looked into, it turns out that they are not. They are fly-by-nights who are just taking the opportunity provided by the loophole in regulations. We can all cite examples of HMOs that have been passed by councils because the councils do not have the powers to stop them. The impact on neighbourhoods is quite dire, and it really does destroy local communities.

While I appreciate the intentions behind the Opposition’s amendments, I think the better place to close the gaps in regulation would be in the Bill from my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East. This measure is obviously needed, but I think this Bill is the wrong place for it. I hope to speak later about some of the specific issues in my constituency and the importance of regulating the providers and ensuring the provisions of the Bill are met, because they are so needed.

[Matthew Pennycook]

That was an incredibly informed and helpful debate. I just want to say at the outset that we fully appreciate how complex an area of law and regulation this is. I have done enough of these Committees to know that the Minister is not going to simply stand up and accept the amendments we have cobbled together just on the basis of my speech, however good it might have been.

I will try to respond to the points made, which I take in the constructive spirit they were offered in. I do not think many of the points made get to the heart of what the amendments are driving at. I agree with the hon. Member for Harrow East: there is a plethora of regulators in housing and planning generally, and I am concerned that we are creating overlap and confusion in various ways. I will come to how that might be true in relation to the ombudsman and the regulator when we discuss clause 5, but that is absolutely a point.

The Minister made the point well: the private Member’s Bill of the hon. Member for Harrow East, the Supported Housing (Regulatory Oversight) Bill, includes a range of targeted measures to address the scandal—we all agree it is a scandal—of rogue providers of exempt accommodation and temporary accommodation in many cases. However, as I made clear, that Bill does not address this gap. The hon. Member for Erewash said that if it is not covered by these amendments, it can be done via the Supported Housing (Regulatory Oversight) Bill, but it is not in that Bill. Perhaps it will end up in that Bill after Committee stage, in which case we will be entirely happy with that being a vehicle for it rather than this Bill, but it needs to be addressed.

Social Housing (Regulation) Bill [ Lords ] (First sitting)

Debate between Matthew Pennycook and Maggie Throup

Tuesday 29th November 2022 Public Bill Committees

[Maggie Throup (Erewash) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Edward. I think this is an important Bill. Amendment 13 and new clause 8 relate to supported exempt accommodation and temporary accommodation when provided by providers that are the subject of other parts of the Bill. The hon. Member for Greenwich and Woolwich made a very good case.

The hon. Member for Mitcham and Morden made a passionate speech, and I think we can all relate to what she was saying, because we all have examples in our constituency of providers who sound very legitimate and credible, but after they are looked into, it turns out that they are not. They are fly-by-nights who are just taking the opportunity provided by the loophole in regulations. We can all cite examples of HMOs that have been passed by councils because the councils do not have the powers to stop them. The impact on neighbourhoods is quite dire, and it really does destroy local communities.

While I appreciate the intentions behind the Opposition’s amendments, I think the better place to close the gaps in regulation would be in the Bill from my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East. This measure is obviously needed, but I think this Bill is the wrong place for it. I hope to speak later about some of the specific issues in my constituency and the importance of regulating the providers and ensuring the provisions of the Bill are met, because they are so needed.

[Matthew Pennycook]

That was an incredibly informed and helpful debate. I just want to say at the outset that we fully appreciate how complex an area of law and regulation this is. I have done enough of these Committees to know that the Minister is not going to simply stand up and accept the amendments we have cobbled together just on the basis of my speech, however good it might have been.

I will try to respond to the points made, which I take in the constructive spirit they were offered in. I do not think many of the points made get to the heart of what the amendments are driving at. I agree with the hon. Member for Harrow East: there is a plethora of regulators in housing and planning generally, and I am concerned that we are creating overlap and confusion in various ways. I will come to how that might be true in relation to the ombudsman and the regulator when we discuss clause 5, but that is absolutely a point.

The Minister made the point well: the private Member’s Bill of the hon. Member for Harrow East, the Supported Housing (Regulatory Oversight) Bill, includes a range of targeted measures to address the scandal—we all agree it is a scandal—of rogue providers of exempt accommodation and temporary accommodation in many cases. However, as I made clear, that Bill does not address this gap. The hon. Member for Erewash said that if it is not covered by these amendments, it can be done via the Supported Housing (Regulatory Oversight) Bill, but it is not in that Bill. Perhaps it will end up in that Bill after Committee stage, in which case we will be entirely happy with that being a vehicle for it rather than this Bill, but it needs to be addressed.