Leasehold and Freehold Reform Bill (Tenth sitting)

Debate between Matthew Pennycook and Eddie Hughes

Tuesday 30th January 2024 Public Bill Committees

[Matthew Pennycook]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

It is a pleasure to continue our line-by-line proceedings with you in the Chair, Sir Edward. For the sake of probity, simply because I will make reference to the organisation’s work, I once again declare that my wife is the joint chief executive of the Law Commission.

The reason for tabling the new clause is simple: forfeiture is a wholly disproportionate and horrifically draconian mechanism for ensuring compliance with a lease agreement, and it needs to be abolished through the Bill. To remind the Committee, the law of forfeiture gives the landlord the right, following a breach of a clause in the lease or an unpaid debt of £350, or a lesser sum if it has been outstanding for more than three years, to terminate the lease, regain possession of the property and pocket the unmerited windfall gain that would accrue from its sale.

Not all forfeiture actions relate to trivial breaches—some are made in response to serious transgressions of a covenant in a lease, such as instances of persistent and egregious antisocial behaviour—but many are initiated for entirely trivial breaches, such as nominal ground rent or service charge arrears. The current laws of forfeiture render it entirely possible, for example, for a tenant to lose possession of a £500,000 flat or house for a debt of as little as £351, or even £15 if unpaid for more than three years, with the landlord keeping the entire difference between the value of the property and the debt owed.

[Eddie Hughes (Walsall North) (Con)]

The hon. Gentleman is making a compelling speech. It seems crazy that in the 21st century somebody can lose possession of their property for such a small amount of money. I sincerely hope that he continues his compelling speech in such a way that he has a very positive effect on the Minister.

[Matthew Pennycook]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that helpful intervention. I hope that I do have that effect, and that he can use his good offices to persuade the Minister of the merits of adopting new clause 1.

Leasehold and Freehold Reform Bill (Ninth sitting)

Debate between Matthew Pennycook and Eddie Hughes

Committee stage
Tuesday 30th January 2024 Public Bill Committees

[Eddie Hughes (Walsall North) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under you, Sir Mark. The civil engineer in me rises to agree with the hon. Gentleman completely; it is slightly embarrassing that we once again find common cause. The point is well made: if a set standard is identified that will be accepted universally by councils as one they would be prepared to adopt, and forced on the developers, the developers will meet that standard, but if they are left with any opportunity to build something substandard, they will always take it and they will frequently try to go further and not even meet the standard that they have prescribed in their own design work. I am sure that all Committee members will have seen examples of that in their constituencies. I again find common cause, and I hope the Minister considers these points.

[Matthew Pennycook]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention; it is a habit that I hope he continues because I think there is common ground here. When it comes to common adoptable standards, Ministers have often put it to me—the Minister no doubt will; previous Ministers have done—that local authorities have the tools they need to drive up the standards of public amenities that are constructed, but there is clearly something going wrong in that they are not ensuring that those standards are in place. As a consequence—not in every instance, but in many—local authorities have good reason to be reluctant to take them on.

We have tabled amendment 150 in an attempt to challenge the Government to consider how they might utilise the regulatory framework introduced by part 4 to drive up the standards of public amenities on the estates in question—that is the other half of the equation that I think we are all agreed we need. Our amendment would ensure that services or works on private or mixed-tenure estates that are required as a result of defects in construction are not relevant costs for the purposes of estate management. I think that, rather than the amendment of the hon. Member for North East Bedfordshire, would be the incentive that developers need to ensure that high standards are in place at the point that they hand the estate over. Ours is consciously a probing amendment and I hope the Minister will understand and appreciate the problem that it attempts to address, as does the hon. Member’s amendment. I look forward to hearing the Minister’s thoughts on it.

Renters (Reform) Bill (Seventh sitting)

Debate between Matthew Pennycook and Eddie Hughes

Committee stage
Thursday 23rd November 2023 Public Bill Committees

[Matthew Pennycook]

I welcome the Minister’s response and his commitment to look further at this matter. Although the mandatory duty is welcome, we have real concerns about the ability of local authorities to properly investigate and enforce. We will come back to those concerns, because they relate to a number of areas in the Bill. I therefore hope that the Minister goes away and thinks about every—

[Eddie Hughes (Walsall North) (Con)]

There is form in this area: a landlord cannot evict their tenants if the property does not have an energy performance certificate. It seems like an interesting proposal.

[Matthew Pennycook]

I very much welcome the hon. Gentleman’s intervention. I have covered all bases in our set of amendments. We will come to the preconditions and requirements that have developed around section 21 that fall away under the Bill; they are a concern. The hon. Gentleman is right: to serve a section 21 notice, a number of regulatory obligations must be met.

Social Housing (Regulation) Bill [Lords]

Debate between Matthew Pennycook and Eddie Hughes

Report stage
Wednesday 1st March 2023 Commons Chamber

[Matthew Pennycook]

I start by thanking the Clerks, the House staff, and Library specialists for facilitating our debates on this important piece of legislation, and all the external organisations—including Shelter, the Chartered Institute of Housing, and the Greater Manchester Law Centre—that have engaged extensively with us on it.

[Eddie Hughes (Walsall North) (Con)]

Will the shadow Minister give way?

[Matthew Pennycook]

I will.

[Eddie Hughes]

I apologise for the very early intervention, but as the Minister who was partly responsible for overseeing the transition from White Paper to Bill, I just wanted to thank the incredible team who sit behind the Minister in the Box for their work. I see some very familiar faces, belonging to some very committed individuals, and I was certainly very grateful for their contribution. I am sure the Minister was, too.

[Matthew Pennycook]

I welcome the hon. Gentleman’s intervention. I certainly thank that team, and I thank him for all the work he has done in this area as well.

I also thank the Minister for the constructive tone with which she has approached the legislation, as well as all hon. Members who have contributed to our proceedings at all stages, particularly those who took the Bill so ably through Committee. Lastly, I pay tribute on behalf of the Opposition to the work of Grenfell United and the Grenfell Foundation, which have pushed at every turn for this legislation to come forward and to ensure it is strengthened, and to the family of Awaab Ishak, who with dignity and fortitude have campaigned for—and will now have secured—a change in the law that I have no doubt will save lives.

We know from the circumstances leading up to the Grenfell Tower fire, those surrounding the death of Awaab Ishak, and countless other appalling cases that never attracted media attention that poorly maintained and managed social housing can literally kill. That is why it is so important that we overhaul the regulation of social housing, and that this Bill passes. It is almost six years since 72 men, women and children lost their lives at Grenfell. More than four and a half years have passed since the Green Paper was issued, and more than two have passed since the White Paper was published. There is no question that it took the Government far too long to bring us to this moment, but we are extremely pleased that this necessary and urgently required Bill will complete its remaining Commons stages today.

The Opposition were determined to see the Bill strengthened in a number of areas, so that standards in social housing markedly and rapidly improve, tenants are able to pursue effective redress, and those tenants are empowered and their voices truly listened to. We welcome the various concessions and revisions that the Government have made, which without question have improved the Bill. However, as things stand, we do not believe that it is the most robust piece of legislation that this House could have delivered for tenants. We support the passage of the Bill tonight, because millions of those living in social homes across England need action now to address the plight of poor conditions and neglect and negligence at the hands of their landlords, but we hope that the Government will reflect further on the compelling arguments we have made for changes to further strengthen this vital piece of legislation.

Question put and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read the Third time and passed, with amendments.

Social Housing and Regulation Bill [ Lords ] (First sitting)

Debate between Matthew Pennycook and Eddie Hughes

Tuesday 29th November 2022 Public Bill Committees

[Matthew Pennycook]

I thank the Minister for that helpful response, and I take on board the concerns she raised about the amendments.

I am slightly concerned about the lack of what we would consider to be true tenant empowerment. The quality resident panel is important, but it only lasts a year, so how will we get ongoing tenant engagement with the work of the regulator to inform how it operates, to shape future regulation, which is part of its remit, and to raise future issues of concern to tenants nationally, in terms of social housing regulation and policy? We do not think the Bill allows for that, and in all honesty I cannot understand the Government’s objection to allowing the advisory panel to notify Ministers directly, rather than the regulator, in certain rare circumstances. As the Minister said, the panel is at present constituted by the regulator, which appoints its membership, and it can only provide views directly to the regulator. We think there are some circumstances in which it may need to do otherwise. I hope the Minister takes away those points.

[Eddie Hughes]

Although there might be some deliberation about this mechanism, there are several mechanisms through which resident organisations are able to engage with Ministers and the regulator. I am delighted to see representatives of Grenfell United in the Public Gallery. There is a regular opportunity to meet Ministers, although it is not prescriptive and perhaps not as frequent as many would like, but the Government are certainly determined to build on it.

[Matthew Pennycook]

We recognise that Ministers meet tenants and tenant representatives frequently. My concern is that if tenants on the advisory panel have an issue that they feel is sufficiently serious that they need to bring it to the attention of Ministers, rather than the regulator, they should not have to rely on attempting to get a meeting with Ministers. There should be a mechanism through which they can put serious issues on the desk of the Secretary of State or the Minister if they feel that they, as well as the regulator, need to know about them. That is the point we are trying to address with amendment 14.

On amendment 15, I understand the Minister’s concerns about being too prescriptive, but I urge the Government to go away and think again about the membership of the advisory panel. I appreciate fully the need to have a diverse panel, but as I read clause 2(4), there is nothing on the face of the Bill to prevent the Government from putting one tenant or tenant representative on the panel and leaving it at that. There is no minimum quota for tenants, and we want tenant voices to be properly represented.

--- Later in debate ---

[Matthew Pennycook]

I will be brief, but there is an issue that we want to highlight in relation to clause 5, which is about the relationship between the regulator and housing ombudsman. Clause 5 amends the Housing and Regeneration Act 2008 and the Housing Act 1996 to add measures on the relationship between the two bodies, so that they can exchange information quickly and effectively to provide better protection for tenants, all of which is entirely to the good and uncontroversial. However, consideration of the clause provides me with an opportunity to seek clarification from the Minister about the precise role of each body in the reformed regulatory regime that the Bill establishes.

Taken at face value, the role of each body is clearly delineated: the regulator regulates registered providers in England, while the housing ombudsman seeks to resolve complaints from individual residents about their registered provider. The regulator operates on a top-down basis, and the housing ombudsman operates on a bottom-up basis. However, when one considers how the reformed regulatory regime will operate in practice, things start to appear somewhat more complicated.

First, if my reading of the Bill is correct, the regulator appears to be able to intervene in individual complaints. Clause 31, for example, enables the regulator to arrange for an authorised person to take emergency remedial action in respect of individual premises following completion of a survey. Presumably, it is therefore necessary for the regulator to receive a complaint from a tenant who fears they are at risk of an imminent serious health and safety risk. Otherwise, how could the regulator order the necessary survey of a given premises? It may be that that is not the case, and it will be for the ombudsman to refer an individual complaint to the regulator to allow them to make use of the provisions in clause 31; if that is the case, it is not clear from the Bill.

Secondly, following revisions to the housing ombudsman scheme enacted in September 2020, the ombudsman has a responsibility to publish a complaint handling code, enjoys a new power to issue complaint handling failure orders that can relate to a landlord’s overall complaint-handling policy and, crucially, has the ability to investigate beyond an initial complaint to establish whether evidence might indicate a systemic failing by a registered provider. It may be that the ombudsman can address such systemic failings on the part of registered providers on the basis of suggested changes to their policies only with the regulator responsible for exploring whether changes to their systems are necessary, but again that is not immediately clear in the Bill.

[Eddie Hughes]

I understand the point that the hon. Gentleman is making, but it is based on the premise that these bodies operate in a completely siloed fashion. The relationship between them is a fluid one; they speak regularly and consider complaints and points that have been raised, which come to them from either direction. They work in a collaborative fashion and are then able to identify who should best proceed with a particular case. Obviously, it is governed by a memorandum of understanding, but it is a much more fluid and collaborative arrangement than that.

[Matthew Pennycook]

I thank the hon. Gentleman, and I fully understand his point. I met with senior staff from the housing ombudsman yesterday, and we were talking precisely about the ways in which the respective roles operate and how they could be clarified. What these examples seek to illustrate is that there is still an obvious risk of overlap and duplication of roles in respect of these two bodies. One could argue, as the hon. Gentleman just has, that those issues can be resolved by means of updating the non-statutory memorandum of understanding that already sets out the functions of both organisations and how they work together, but that throws up two distinct issues in and of itself.

First, is it appropriate for us to leave these matters to the two bodies themselves to resolve, rather than clarifying on the face of the Bill the precise role of each body in the new regulatory regime, so as to avoid the duplication of functions and potential gaps in coverage—even if only in the short term, before they update that memorandum of understanding to reflect the new regulatory system of proactive consumer regulation?

Secondly, I am sure that hon. Members have been contacted by tenants who are aware that the Bill is progressing through the House. The expectations around the Bill are such that, after it receives Royal Assent, tenants who feel that they have not secured appropriate redress by means of a standard complaint to their landlord and believe that their grievance might be systemic in nature will understandably be uncertain about whether they should approach the ombudsman or the regulator with their complaint. I appreciate that the Department is alive to the risk, has produced guidance in the form of a fact sheet and is apparently delivering a communications campaign to tenants so that they know where to go and are well informed but, without greater clarity prior to Royal Assent about the precise roles of each body in the regime established by the Bill, I fear that neither will be sufficient to prevent a large degree of confusion. When debating this matter in the other place, Baroness Scott of Bybrook conceded that fears about confusion of the kind that I alluded to are legitimate, and that greater clarity is required as a result; yet, despite her promise to take the matter back to the Department, the Government are not amending the Bill to provide greater clarity or committing to take any further concrete steps—that I am aware of, at least—to ensure that confusion will be avoided.

As Shelter and others have argued, it is essential that the roles of the regulator and the housing ombudsman are clearly defined, that tenants and tenant groups understand the appropriate way to make complaints and that any complaints process or system is easy to use, accessible and effective. I would be grateful if the Minister provided greater clarity today and, if not today, in writing. I hope that, in general terms, she will assure me that the issues that I have highlighted will be both considered and acted on by the Department before the Bill receives Royal Assent.

Social Housing (Regulation) Bill [ LORDS ] (Second sitting)

Debate between Matthew Pennycook and Eddie Hughes

Tuesday 29th November 2022 Public Bill Committees

[Matthew Pennycook]

At the outset, I should thank the Greater Manchester Law Centre for its support in drafting the new clause, the purpose of which is to probe the Government’s rationale for not using the Bill to bring registered providers of social housing within the scope of the Freedom of Information Act—other than local authorities, which, as the Minister rightly said, are already subject to it—and to press the Government to reconsider.

As the Minister is no doubt aware, this matter has been a perennial cause of concern. In 2011, the coalition Government announced that they would consult housing associations on bringing them within the scope of the Act; however, no further action was taken—almost certainly as a result of housing associations objecting. The issue resurfaced in the wake of the Grenfell Tower fire as a result of the Information Commissioner’s Office reporting to Parliament that it had experienced difficulties in accessing information relating to social housing and to the Kensington and Chelsea Tenant Management Organisation because the information was not covered by the Freedom of Information Act. The Information Commissioner at the time, Elizabeth Denham, made it clear that

“housing Associations are currently not subject to Freedom of Information Act because the Act does not designate them as public bodies. It is clear to me that this is a significant gap in the public’s right to know”.

We believe that she was right to highlight that gap, which remains to this day.

It is not simply that the public do not enjoy rights that they have never had; in the cases of housing associations that have had local authority stock transferred to their management, tenants and the public have lost freedom of information rights that they previously enjoyed when those homes were under local authority control. As I expected, the Minister has made the case that the issues are addressed by the provisions in clause 22 relating to information and transparency; however, those provisions are limited both in scope and specificity in terms of who may request the disclosure of information—it would appear that only tenants themselves have access to it, while journalists and others would not—and how the scheme will operate in practice.

[Eddie Hughes]

Perhaps the Minister can clarify this, but I understood that it was not just tenants, but people who were acting on their behalf. Can we confirm that? [Interruption.]

--- Later in debate ---

[Matthew Pennycook]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

In rising to speak to the final new clause, I thank hon. Members for their indulgence. They have listened to me a lot today.

[Eddie Hughes]

Quality stuff!

[Matthew Pennycook]

Absolutely right.

We finish with an important new clause. It relates to what comes under the rubric of consumer standards as defined by the Bill. Since its initial publication in June, the Bill has been improved in several important respects. Today we have urged the Government to go further in relation to some areas and we will continue to do so, but we welcome the introduction of the consumer standards in relation to safety, transparency, competence and conduct.

However, there are other matters of real importance to social tenants that the Bill, as drafted, does not extend new consumer standards to. They include major repairs or improvement works, estate regeneration, service charges, advice and assistance in relation to the prevention of homelessness and urgent moves resulting from the risk of domestic abuse or serious violence.

New clause 6 simply seeks to ensure that the regulator has the freedom to set standards for registered providers in respect of each of those areas of housing management by amending section 193 of the Housing and Regeneration Act 2008 to include them within the scope of what is considered a consumer matter.

There is arguably a need for the regulator to carry out a thorough consultation about consumer standards to better understand what housing management issues currently matter most to tenants. However, we know both from organisations providing housing support, guidance and expert advice services and, I would argue, from our own postbags, that the issues covered by new clause 6 are important to tenants. There is an arguable case for placing them in the Bill to at least allow the regulator, which has probably consulted and developed them, to set consumer standards in relation to some of these issues at a later date. I look forward to the Minister’s response.

Social Housing (Regulation) Bill [ Lords ] (First sitting)

Debate between Matthew Pennycook and Eddie Hughes

Tuesday 29th November 2022 Public Bill Committees

[Matthew Pennycook]

I thank the Minister for that helpful response, and I take on board the concerns she raised about the amendments.

I am slightly concerned about the lack of what we would consider to be true tenant empowerment. The quality resident panel is important, but it only lasts a year, so how will we get ongoing tenant engagement with the work of the regulator to inform how it operates, to shape future regulation, which is part of its remit, and to raise future issues of concern to tenants nationally, in terms of social housing regulation and policy? We do not think the Bill allows for that, and in all honesty I cannot understand the Government’s objection to allowing the advisory panel to notify Ministers directly, rather than the regulator, in certain rare circumstances. As the Minister said, the panel is at present constituted by the regulator, which appoints its membership, and it can only provide views directly to the regulator. We think there are some circumstances in which it may need to do otherwise. I hope the Minister takes away those points.

[Eddie Hughes]

Although there might be some deliberation about this mechanism, there are several mechanisms through which resident organisations are able to engage with Ministers and the regulator. I am delighted to see representatives of Grenfell United in the Public Gallery. There is a regular opportunity to meet Ministers, although it is not prescriptive and perhaps not as frequent as many would like, but the Government are certainly determined to build on it.

[Matthew Pennycook]

We recognise that Ministers meet tenants and tenant representatives frequently. My concern is that if tenants on the advisory panel have an issue that they feel is sufficiently serious that they need to bring it to the attention of Ministers, rather than the regulator, they should not have to rely on attempting to get a meeting with Ministers. There should be a mechanism through which they can put serious issues on the desk of the Secretary of State or the Minister if they feel that they, as well as the regulator, need to know about them. That is the point we are trying to address with amendment 14.

On amendment 15, I understand the Minister’s concerns about being too prescriptive, but I urge the Government to go away and think again about the membership of the advisory panel. I appreciate fully the need to have a diverse panel, but as I read clause 2(4), there is nothing on the face of the Bill to prevent the Government from putting one tenant or tenant representative on the panel and leaving it at that. There is no minimum quota for tenants, and we want tenant voices to be properly represented.

--- Later in debate ---

[Matthew Pennycook]

I will be brief, but there is an issue that we want to highlight in relation to clause 5, which is about the relationship between the regulator and housing ombudsman. Clause 5 amends the Housing and Regeneration Act 2008 and the Housing Act 1996 to add measures on the relationship between the two bodies, so that they can exchange information quickly and effectively to provide better protection for tenants, all of which is entirely to the good and uncontroversial. However, consideration of the clause provides me with an opportunity to seek clarification from the Minister about the precise role of each body in the reformed regulatory regime that the Bill establishes.

Taken at face value, the role of each body is clearly delineated: the regulator regulates registered providers in England, while the housing ombudsman seeks to resolve complaints from individual residents about their registered provider. The regulator operates on a top-down basis, and the housing ombudsman operates on a bottom-up basis. However, when one considers how the reformed regulatory regime will operate in practice, things start to appear somewhat more complicated.

First, if my reading of the Bill is correct, the regulator appears to be able to intervene in individual complaints. Clause 31, for example, enables the regulator to arrange for an authorised person to take emergency remedial action in respect of individual premises following completion of a survey. Presumably, it is therefore necessary for the regulator to receive a complaint from a tenant who fears they are at risk of an imminent serious health and safety risk. Otherwise, how could the regulator order the necessary survey of a given premises? It may be that that is not the case, and it will be for the ombudsman to refer an individual complaint to the regulator to allow them to make use of the provisions in clause 31; if that is the case, it is not clear from the Bill.

Secondly, following revisions to the housing ombudsman scheme enacted in September 2020, the ombudsman has a responsibility to publish a complaint handling code, enjoys a new power to issue complaint handling failure orders that can relate to a landlord’s overall complaint-handling policy and, crucially, has the ability to investigate beyond an initial complaint to establish whether evidence might indicate a systemic failing by a registered provider. It may be that the ombudsman can address such systemic failings on the part of registered providers on the basis of suggested changes to their policies only with the regulator responsible for exploring whether changes to their systems are necessary, but again that is not immediately clear in the Bill.

[Eddie Hughes]

I understand the point that the hon. Gentleman is making, but it is based on the premise that these bodies operate in a completely siloed fashion. The relationship between them is a fluid one; they speak regularly and consider complaints and points that have been raised, which come to them from either direction. They work in a collaborative fashion and are then able to identify who should best proceed with a particular case. Obviously, it is governed by a memorandum of understanding, but it is a much more fluid and collaborative arrangement than that.

[Matthew Pennycook]

I thank the hon. Gentleman, and I fully understand his point. I met with senior staff from the housing ombudsman yesterday, and we were talking precisely about the ways in which the respective roles operate and how they could be clarified. What these examples seek to illustrate is that there is still an obvious risk of overlap and duplication of roles in respect of these two bodies. One could argue, as the hon. Gentleman just has, that those issues can be resolved by means of updating the non-statutory memorandum of understanding that already sets out the functions of both organisations and how they work together, but that throws up two distinct issues in and of itself.

First, is it appropriate for us to leave these matters to the two bodies themselves to resolve, rather than clarifying on the face of the Bill the precise role of each body in the new regulatory regime, so as to avoid the duplication of functions and potential gaps in coverage—even if only in the short term, before they update that memorandum of understanding to reflect the new regulatory system of proactive consumer regulation?

Secondly, I am sure that hon. Members have been contacted by tenants who are aware that the Bill is progressing through the House. The expectations around the Bill are such that, after it receives Royal Assent, tenants who feel that they have not secured appropriate redress by means of a standard complaint to their landlord and believe that their grievance might be systemic in nature will understandably be uncertain about whether they should approach the ombudsman or the regulator with their complaint. I appreciate that the Department is alive to the risk, has produced guidance in the form of a fact sheet and is apparently delivering a communications campaign to tenants so that they know where to go and are well informed but, without greater clarity prior to Royal Assent about the precise roles of each body in the regime established by the Bill, I fear that neither will be sufficient to prevent a large degree of confusion. When debating this matter in the other place, Baroness Scott of Bybrook conceded that fears about confusion of the kind that I alluded to are legitimate, and that greater clarity is required as a result; yet, despite her promise to take the matter back to the Department, the Government are not amending the Bill to provide greater clarity or committing to take any further concrete steps—that I am aware of, at least—to ensure that confusion will be avoided.

As Shelter and others have argued, it is essential that the roles of the regulator and the housing ombudsman are clearly defined, that tenants and tenant groups understand the appropriate way to make complaints and that any complaints process or system is easy to use, accessible and effective. I would be grateful if the Minister provided greater clarity today and, if not today, in writing. I hope that, in general terms, she will assure me that the issues that I have highlighted will be both considered and acted on by the Department before the Bill receives Royal Assent.

Social Housing and Regulation Bill [ LORDS ] (Second sitting)

Debate between Matthew Pennycook and Eddie Hughes

Committee stage
Tuesday 29th November 2022 Public Bill Committees

[Matthew Pennycook]

At the outset, I should thank the Greater Manchester Law Centre for its support in drafting the new clause, the purpose of which is to probe the Government’s rationale for not using the Bill to bring registered providers of social housing within the scope of the Freedom of Information Act—other than local authorities, which, as the Minister rightly said, are already subject to it—and to press the Government to reconsider.

As the Minister is no doubt aware, this matter has been a perennial cause of concern. In 2011, the coalition Government announced that they would consult housing associations on bringing them within the scope of the Act; however, no further action was taken—almost certainly as a result of housing associations objecting. The issue resurfaced in the wake of the Grenfell Tower fire as a result of the Information Commissioner’s Office reporting to Parliament that it had experienced difficulties in accessing information relating to social housing and to the Kensington and Chelsea Tenant Management Organisation because the information was not covered by the Freedom of Information Act. The Information Commissioner at the time, Elizabeth Denham, made it clear that

“housing Associations are currently not subject to Freedom of Information Act because the Act does not designate them as public bodies. It is clear to me that this is a significant gap in the public’s right to know”.

We believe that she was right to highlight that gap, which remains to this day.

It is not simply that the public do not enjoy rights that they have never had; in the cases of housing associations that have had local authority stock transferred to their management, tenants and the public have lost freedom of information rights that they previously enjoyed when those homes were under local authority control. As I expected, the Minister has made the case that the issues are addressed by the provisions in clause 22 relating to information and transparency; however, those provisions are limited both in scope and specificity in terms of who may request the disclosure of information—it would appear that only tenants themselves have access to it, while journalists and others would not—and how the scheme will operate in practice.

[Eddie Hughes]

Perhaps the Minister can clarify this, but I understood that it was not just tenants, but people who were acting on their behalf. Can we confirm that? [Interruption.]

--- Later in debate ---

[Matthew Pennycook]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

In rising to speak to the final new clause, I thank hon. Members for their indulgence. They have listened to me a lot today.

[Eddie Hughes]

Quality stuff!

[Matthew Pennycook]

Absolutely right.

We finish with an important new clause. It relates to what comes under the rubric of consumer standards as defined by the Bill. Since its initial publication in June, the Bill has been improved in several important respects. Today we have urged the Government to go further in relation to some areas and we will continue to do so, but we welcome the introduction of the consumer standards in relation to safety, transparency, competence and conduct.

However, there are other matters of real importance to social tenants that the Bill, as drafted, does not extend new consumer standards to. They include major repairs or improvement works, estate regeneration, service charges, advice and assistance in relation to the prevention of homelessness and urgent moves resulting from the risk of domestic abuse or serious violence.

New clause 6 simply seeks to ensure that the regulator has the freedom to set standards for registered providers in respect of each of those areas of housing management by amending section 193 of the Housing and Regeneration Act 2008 to include them within the scope of what is considered a consumer matter.

There is arguably a need for the regulator to carry out a thorough consultation about consumer standards to better understand what housing management issues currently matter most to tenants. However, we know both from organisations providing housing support, guidance and expert advice services and, I would argue, from our own postbags, that the issues covered by new clause 6 are important to tenants. There is an arguable case for placing them in the Bill to at least allow the regulator, which has probably consulted and developed them, to set consumer standards in relation to some of these issues at a later date. I look forward to the Minister’s response.

Social Housing and Regulation Bill (First sitting)

Debate between Matthew Pennycook and Eddie Hughes

Committee stage
Tuesday 29th November 2022 Public Bill Committees

[Matthew Pennycook]

I thank the Minister for that helpful response, and I take on board the concerns she raised about the amendments.

I am slightly concerned about the lack of what we would consider to be true tenant empowerment. The quality resident panel is important, but it only lasts a year, so how will we get ongoing tenant engagement with the work of the regulator to inform how it operates, to shape future regulation, which is part of its remit, and to raise future issues of concern to tenants nationally, in terms of social housing regulation and policy? We do not think the Bill allows for that, and in all honesty I cannot understand the Government’s objection to allowing the advisory panel to notify Ministers directly, rather than the regulator, in certain rare circumstances. As the Minister said, the panel is at present constituted by the regulator, which appoints its membership, and it can only provide views directly to the regulator. We think there are some circumstances in which it may need to do otherwise. I hope the Minister takes away those points.

[Eddie Hughes]

Although there might be some deliberation about this mechanism, there are several mechanisms through which resident organisations are able to engage with Ministers and the regulator. I am delighted to see representatives of Grenfell United in the Public Gallery. There is a regular opportunity to meet Ministers, although it is not prescriptive and perhaps not as frequent as many would like, but the Government are certainly determined to build on it.

[Matthew Pennycook]

We recognise that Ministers meet tenants and tenant representatives frequently. My concern is that if tenants on the advisory panel have an issue that they feel is sufficiently serious that they need to bring it to the attention of Ministers, rather than the regulator, they should not have to rely on attempting to get a meeting with Ministers. There should be a mechanism through which they can put serious issues on the desk of the Secretary of State or the Minister if they feel that they, as well as the regulator, need to know about them. That is the point we are trying to address with amendment 14.

On amendment 15, I understand the Minister’s concerns about being too prescriptive, but I urge the Government to go away and think again about the membership of the advisory panel. I appreciate fully the need to have a diverse panel, but as I read clause 2(4), there is nothing on the face of the Bill to prevent the Government from putting one tenant or tenant representative on the panel and leaving it at that. There is no minimum quota for tenants, and we want tenant voices to be properly represented.

--- Later in debate ---

[Matthew Pennycook]

I will be brief, but there is an issue that we want to highlight in relation to clause 5, which is about the relationship between the regulator and housing ombudsman. Clause 5 amends the Housing and Regeneration Act 2008 and the Housing Act 1996 to add measures on the relationship between the two bodies, so that they can exchange information quickly and effectively to provide better protection for tenants, all of which is entirely to the good and uncontroversial. However, consideration of the clause provides me with an opportunity to seek clarification from the Minister about the precise role of each body in the reformed regulatory regime that the Bill establishes.

Taken at face value, the role of each body is clearly delineated: the regulator regulates registered providers in England, while the housing ombudsman seeks to resolve complaints from individual residents about their registered provider. The regulator operates on a top-down basis, and the housing ombudsman operates on a bottom-up basis. However, when one considers how the reformed regulatory regime will operate in practice, things start to appear somewhat more complicated.

First, if my reading of the Bill is correct, the regulator appears to be able to intervene in individual complaints. Clause 31, for example, enables the regulator to arrange for an authorised person to take emergency remedial action in respect of individual premises following completion of a survey. Presumably, it is therefore necessary for the regulator to receive a complaint from a tenant who fears they are at risk of an imminent serious health and safety risk. Otherwise, how could the regulator order the necessary survey of a given premises? It may be that that is not the case, and it will be for the ombudsman to refer an individual complaint to the regulator to allow them to make use of the provisions in clause 31; if that is the case, it is not clear from the Bill.

Secondly, following revisions to the housing ombudsman scheme enacted in September 2020, the ombudsman has a responsibility to publish a complaint handling code, enjoys a new power to issue complaint handling failure orders that can relate to a landlord’s overall complaint-handling policy and, crucially, has the ability to investigate beyond an initial complaint to establish whether evidence might indicate a systemic failing by a registered provider. It may be that the ombudsman can address such systemic failings on the part of registered providers on the basis of suggested changes to their policies only with the regulator responsible for exploring whether changes to their systems are necessary, but again that is not immediately clear in the Bill.

[Eddie Hughes]

I understand the point that the hon. Gentleman is making, but it is based on the premise that these bodies operate in a completely siloed fashion. The relationship between them is a fluid one; they speak regularly and consider complaints and points that have been raised, which come to them from either direction. They work in a collaborative fashion and are then able to identify who should best proceed with a particular case. Obviously, it is governed by a memorandum of understanding, but it is a much more fluid and collaborative arrangement than that.

[Matthew Pennycook]

I thank the hon. Gentleman, and I fully understand his point. I met with senior staff from the housing ombudsman yesterday, and we were talking precisely about the ways in which the respective roles operate and how they could be clarified. What these examples seek to illustrate is that there is still an obvious risk of overlap and duplication of roles in respect of these two bodies. One could argue, as the hon. Gentleman just has, that those issues can be resolved by means of updating the non-statutory memorandum of understanding that already sets out the functions of both organisations and how they work together, but that throws up two distinct issues in and of itself.

First, is it appropriate for us to leave these matters to the two bodies themselves to resolve, rather than clarifying on the face of the Bill the precise role of each body in the new regulatory regime, so as to avoid the duplication of functions and potential gaps in coverage—even if only in the short term, before they update that memorandum of understanding to reflect the new regulatory system of proactive consumer regulation?

Secondly, I am sure that hon. Members have been contacted by tenants who are aware that the Bill is progressing through the House. The expectations around the Bill are such that, after it receives Royal Assent, tenants who feel that they have not secured appropriate redress by means of a standard complaint to their landlord and believe that their grievance might be systemic in nature will understandably be uncertain about whether they should approach the ombudsman or the regulator with their complaint. I appreciate that the Department is alive to the risk, has produced guidance in the form of a fact sheet and is apparently delivering a communications campaign to tenants so that they know where to go and are well informed but, without greater clarity prior to Royal Assent about the precise roles of each body in the regime established by the Bill, I fear that neither will be sufficient to prevent a large degree of confusion. When debating this matter in the other place, Baroness Scott of Bybrook conceded that fears about confusion of the kind that I alluded to are legitimate, and that greater clarity is required as a result; yet, despite her promise to take the matter back to the Department, the Government are not amending the Bill to provide greater clarity or committing to take any further concrete steps—that I am aware of, at least—to ensure that confusion will be avoided.

As Shelter and others have argued, it is essential that the roles of the regulator and the housing ombudsman are clearly defined, that tenants and tenant groups understand the appropriate way to make complaints and that any complaints process or system is easy to use, accessible and effective. I would be grateful if the Minister provided greater clarity today and, if not today, in writing. I hope that, in general terms, she will assure me that the issues that I have highlighted will be both considered and acted on by the Department before the Bill receives Royal Assent.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Matthew Pennycook and Eddie Hughes

Monday 27th June 2022 Commons Chamber

[Matthew Pennycook (Greenwich and Woolwich) (Lab)]

Having overseen the net loss of a staggering 135,000 genuinely affordable social homes over the past 12 years, the Conservative party now seems to have conceded that the country does not have enough and the Government need to do something about it. When it comes to reversing 12 years of failure on social housing, it is deeds, not words, that matter to the 1.2 million people now languishing on waiting lists across England. Can the Minister tell the House precisely how many extra homes for social rent the Government now plan to deliver by the end of this Parliament?

[Eddie Hughes]

It is slightly disappointing when the hon. Gentleman turns up with a written question that I have already answered in the response to the previous question. However, it is equally important to note that during the 11 years where we had a Labour Government, they built fewer affordable homes than the Conservative Government have built subsequently, so I do not think we are in a position to take lessons from the Opposition.

Private Rented Sector

Debate between Matthew Pennycook and Eddie Hughes

Thursday 16th June 2022 Commons Chamber

[Matthew Pennycook (Greenwich and Woolwich) (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for advance sight of his statement, although it is deeply regrettable that the Government only published the White Paper that is its subject a little over half an hour ago. If it had been shared earlier, Members might be better placed to question the Minister on precisely what the Government are proposing.

Labour strongly supports reform of the private rented sector and has called for it for many years. Regardless of whether they are a homeowner, leaseholder or tenant, everyone has a basic right to a decent, safe, secure and affordable home. Yet millions of those renting privately live with the knowledge that they could be uprooted at a moment’s notice and with minimal justification. Given the size of the private rented sector and its ongoing—indeed accelerating—expansion, this basic lack of stability and certainty is blighting the lives of growing numbers of families. The cost of living crisis is exacerbating this already harmful situation. In many parts of the country, rents in the private rented sector are surging, and with the Government having decided to once again freeze local housing allowance, millions of hard-pressed tenants are at risk of arrears and eviction.

We welcome the proposals in the White Paper and congratulate all the individuals and organisations that have made the case for change over many years. But why has it taken the Government so long to get here? The commitment to reform the private rental market and ban so called no-fault section 21 evictions was made over three years ago by the Government led by the right hon. Member for Maidenhead (Mrs May). In the time since, over 200,000 private renters—not just the young but growing numbers of older people and families on low incomes forced to rent privately because successive Conservative Governments have overseen the erosion of our social housing stock—will have been turfed out of their homes as a result of the Government’s failure to act with the urgency required.

Three years on, that urgency is still lacking, and instead of the publication of legislation that we can fast-track through this House, the best the Government can do is to bring forward a White Paper. Renters across the country need emergency legislation, not further consultation. We know that it is not a guarantee, given that renters reform was promised in the 2021 Queen’s Speech and not delivered, but we do have a commitment to that legislation in this Session, so can the Minister give the House an indication of when it is likely to be published?

Let me turn to some of the specific proposals in the White Paper. We obviously welcome the proposed ban on no-fault evictions, but we will want assurances that the proposals for strengthened mandatory grounds for possession cannot be abused to unfairly evict tenants and will be tight enough to minimise fraudulent use of the kind we have seen in Scotland. Can the Minister provide any such assurances? We support the introduction of minimum standards in the private rented sector through the extension of the decent homes standard, but we have real concerns about how this might be enforced in practice given that it is not an enforceable standard in the social rented sector, where it already exists. What steps do the Government intend to take to ensure that the standard can be properly enforced and that private renters do not end up bearing the cost of seeking redress?

Lastly, in none of the coverage this morning or in the White Paper itself is there any sign of meaningful proposals to address the problem of unreasonable rent rises. A one-year rent increase limit, the removal of rent review clauses and vague assurances about giving tenants the confidence to challenge unjustified increases at tribunal are simply not good enough. According to Rightmove, private rents are rising at record rates, with average asking rents outside London rising last year by over 10% for the first time. With the scrapping of section 21, the risk of economic evictions via rent hikes is going to increase markedly. Can the Minister tell us why the Government are unwilling to act to properly protect private tenants from extortionate rent hikes?

We will study the White Paper carefully now it is published and we will engage constructively with its proposals, but we will also do whatever we can to ensure they are not watered down come the legislation. We are going to continue to urge the Government to bring that legislation forward as a matter of urgency, because renters have waited long enough for the protections that they deserve and rightly expect.

[Eddie Hughes]

I guess I should begin with an apology, saying I am sorry that the document was available at such short notice, although there is going to be considerable opportunity over the next couple of months for me and Members right across the House to discuss its content. I look forward to doing that either in formal settings or in the Tea Room with Members from all parties, right across the House.

But I am not going to let the hon. Gentleman rain on my parade on a sunny day like this. He is looking very serious, but I know that, deep down, Opposition Members welcome this legislation. They may be disappointed that it has taken a while to get to this point, but they may remember—it feels like a distant memory now—that we have had two years of a global pandemic in the meantime. The Government have done everything they could to support renters during that period. We have given furlough payments that have allowed renters to continue to occupy their properties and keep arrears as a result of the pandemic to a limit. We have also invested heavily in things such as discretionary housing payments to help people where arrears have been built up. So we have been doing an awful lot of work in the past two years and I think he should acknowledge that.

As I say, this is a White Paper; it is not the legislation. We have the opportunity now to discuss, as Members of Parliament and with stakeholders, what they think about the legislation and perhaps see if there is an opportunity to improve and enhance it, provided they are reasonable with their suggestions, before we get to the legislation.

On when that might happen, hon. Members will appreciate that our Department has an intense legislative programme. We have the Levelling-up and Regeneration Bill and the Social Housing (Regulation) Bill. As you will be aware, Madam Deputy Speaker, the Social Housing (Regulation) Bill has already life in the other place, so progress is being made with our legislation. However, clauses have been sent for drafting and work is already under way. People are beavering away on the construction of that document, so I hope we will see it in quick time. Once it gets to Parliament, I am expecting its passage through Parliament to be pretty smooth and fast because I think it is going to be welcomed by Opposition Members.

On the point about the abuse of mandatory grounds that we are strengthening for landlords, I understand completely the reservations of the hon. Gentleman. I commit to work closely with him to make sure that that legislation is tough and there is not the opportunity for rogue landlords to thwart it in some way, given our best intentions.

On how we might enforce the powers, I fully appreciate that councils are under intense pressure, so we are going to work with councils on a number of pilot schemes so we can test what the best way is for them to enforce good-quality housing within the private rented sector, and then we can develop best practice and I hope share that across the country.

On rent rises, one of the things we should appreciate with regard to the cost of living is that, if somebody is forced to move tenancy, perhaps because of a no-fault section 21 eviction, on average, that costs approximately £1,400. So if we can limit the number of times people move, we are going to make sure that they do not experience those unfortunate and unnecessary costs. However, as a Government, we are clearly not committed to the idea of rent control. We have seen that experiment carried out recently in some places in Europe and all it does is stop investment in properties. That is the last thing we want to do.

This White Paper commits to a fairer private rented sector for both tenants and landlords, and I look forward to working with Opposition Members to deliver it.

Private Rented Sector Housing

Debate between Matthew Pennycook and Eddie Hughes

Tuesday 15th March 2022 Westminster Hall

[Eddie Hughes]

It is great to hear about good work that is going on across the country, and I fully accept that we can learn from the work that other areas are doing.

I quickly want to cover a few more points. The hon. Member for Vauxhall (Florence Eshalomi) mentioned Louise’s case. I would be grateful if she would write to me, so I can pick up that case, because we need to be concerned about standards in all forms of accommodation, and student accommodation is one of them. The hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) raised working with devolved assemblies. One of the things I have been working on is the new homes ombudsman, who will ensure the new properties we build are of an appropriate quality. We have been working very closely with the devolved Assemblies on that issue, and we will continue to do so in other areas.

I am grateful for the invitation from the hon. Member for Easington (Grahame Morris) to visit. I hope there is no reshuffle before I get the opportunity to get out and about more, to say the least. With regard to the hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston (Justin Madders), when we are talking about insecurity and poor quality housing, I hope that work to abolish section 21 will address both those points because tenants will have more security and more leverage to complain about the standards of accommodation they are being provided with.

[Matthew Pennycook]

The one question I would like the Minister to answer before he wraps up is why the Government have decided to replace a commitment to a renters reform Bill in this Session with a White Paper. Can he guarantee that we will get that comprehensive renters reform Bill in this Parliament?

[Eddie Hughes]

It would be fair to say that I will do everything I can. I feel personally invested in ensuring that happens. On the delay, I am not sure this is the legitimate answer the Government expect me to give, but we have been through two years of covid, and I have seen—we are seeing it now with the situation in Ukraine—that a number of staff have to pivot to the most pressing item that the Government are dealing with. We have a finite number of staff, and clearly covid has caused incredible challenges for the Government. I personally feel that they have responded well, but I understand the frustration. I conclude by saying that the debate has been incredibly useful for me—

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Matthew Pennycook and Eddie Hughes

Monday 24th January 2022 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities (Eddie Hughes)]

The building regulations set out the minimum energy performance standards. They do not prescribe the technology that is required—they just set the goal—which allows builders and homeowners the flexibility to innovate and select the most practical and cost-effective solutions appropriate to any development. Obviously, our intention is to go further. We have had the part L uplift, and building regs will move towards the future homes standard for 2025.

[Matthew Pennycook (Greenwich and Woolwich) (Lab)]

Would the Secretary of State give the House a clear and categorical assurance that if he cannot ultimately extract enough money from industry finally to fix the building safety crisis he will not allow the Chancellor to raid his Department’s budgets, including funding already allocated for new affordable homes, to make up the shortfall?