Lachin Corridor and Nagorno-Karabakh

Debate between Matthew Offord and Bob Blackman

Tuesday 24th January 2023 Westminster Hall

[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hollobone. I draw the House’s attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. In particular, I have the honour of being the chairman of the all-party parliamentary group for Azerbaijan, so I hope I will be able to address some of the incorrect assertions that have been made during this afternoon’s lengthy debate.

First, we should remember that this conflict began in the 1990s with the collapse of the Soviet empire. In that context, a three-year war effectively took place, which ended with a ceasefire brokered in 1994 by the OSCE Minsk group. That directly leads to the current problems, because the reality is that it was recognised that the entirety of Nagorno-Karabakh was part of Azerbaijan, but administered by an Armenian-backed regime. That, of course, led to frequent skirmishes along the line of control over an extended period of time. One of the things that has not been mentioned in this debate is the 1.5 million Azeris who were displaced from Nagorno-Karabakh and ended up having to find alternative accommodation further into Azerbaijan. I have had the pleasure of visiting Azerbaijan on many occasions and have met many of those refugees, who still live in camps and just desire to go home, but have been denied that by the Armenians. Once again, we must remember that there are two sides to this dispute.

The war that took place in 2020 ended with a Russian-backed ceasefire agreement between Azerbaijan and Armenia. However, under the terms of that agreement—we should remember what those terms were—Azerbaijan regained control over a substantial amount of territory, and Russian peacekeeping forces were deployed along the line of contact and, indeed, the land corridor of the Lachin pass that links Nagorno-Karabakh and Armenia. Over the past two years, there have been frequent clashes along that line of control; we should understand that this is not an isolated incident. Those clashes have led to more than 300 deaths along the line of control, including many civilians on both sides of the conflict, so this is not a simple thing where we can wave a magic wand and put things right.

What we do know is that the Azerbaijan Government have a direct concern about what is going on in the mines of Nagorno-Karabakh. The position of the environmental protesters has been mentioned; it should be remembered that the Armenians refused access to those mines to inspectors who could have checked what was actually going on. That led directly to those environmental protests taking place. There is irrefutable evidence that gold and other precious metals are being exploited and transported from Karabakh to Armenia, in flagrant violation of the ceasefire agreement.

We should understand that there is a clear dispute about what the position of the pass is. That corridor is only supposed to be used for humanitarian purposes; however, Armenia and the Armenian-backed forces continue to use the corridor for illegal purposes, such as the transfer of landmines that have been put on to Azerbaijani territory and have killed civilians and members of the military.

[Dr Matthew Offord (Hendon) (Con)]

I, too, refer to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. My hon. Friend is quite correct that there have been several deaths in the area, but will he join me in congratulating the British Government for providing more than £1 million towards de-mining in the area to allow people from both sides of the conflict to come back and repopulate the area in which they had previously resided?

[Bob Blackman]

Clearly, we want to see landmines removed and the unnecessary deaths they cause ended. The landmines that have been transported have caused 276 Azerbaijani nationals, including 35 civilians, to be killed or seriously wounded. There is an issue around what is being used and the so-called blockade that is taking place. The reality is that Red Cross and Russian peacekeeping vehicles are permitted to go along the road; indeed, vital humanitarian aid is permitted along that corridor. We should be quite clear about that.

A key issue is how Ruben Vardanyan, a Russian oligarch of Armenian origin, has been parachuted into Karabakh, apparently by Russia, and given a ministerial role. We need to understand that this is someone who is sanctioned as part of Russia’s involvement in Ukraine, and it is believed that Russia is thereby trying to reinforce its capability in terms of its war effort. His companies have been well used and well involved in the whole process of expanding the military presence in Ukraine and Nagorno-Karabakh.

I will raise one final issue. Armenia has refused to co-operate with discussions on a proper, long-term peace deal with Russia and Azerbaijan. That demonstrates that Armenia has no interest in actually seeing a long-term settlement and peaceful co-operation between the two countries. Can my hon. Friend the Minister encourage a peacekeeping and a peaceful settlement for the two countries?

Iran

Debate between Matthew Offord and Bob Blackman

Thursday 12th January 2023 Commons Chamber

[Bob Blackman]

I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention. Alireza Akbari, who is not just an Iranian, but a UK-Iranian dual national, is on death row. His family have been called in, as has been said, and he is under imminent threat of execution. That is completely unacceptable, particularly under the circumstances of being denied proper legal representation and a proper trial—it was a show trial in front of a court.

[Dr Matthew Offord (Hendon) (Con)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this debate. This very point demonstrates that the Iranian regime does not comply with the rule of law in its own country. If it is prepared to act like that and ignore its own legislation, surely we have a much stronger hand in proscribing the IRGC in its entirety.

[Bob Blackman]

Indeed. I thank my hon. Friend for that point.

Gujarati Community in the UK

Debate between Matthew Offord and Bob Blackman

Wednesday 30th October 2019 Westminster Hall

[Bob Blackman]

I thank the hon. Gentleman, who is the chair of the Indo-British all-party parliamentary group, for his intervention. As the chair of that group, he would naturally raise such a subject and I also know full well how much work he does in his constituency to integrate the various different communities, and I recognise what he has said.

The Gujarati community has integrated so well in Britain because of their religious/spiritual leanings and their ethos of hard work and networking across the community, which we should celebrate.

Most of the Gujaratis in the UK—not all, but most of them—are of Hindu origin and practice Hinduism. All of us who celebrated Diwali last Sunday know that it lasts from about 1 September to 31 January, given the celebrations that go on over that period, but of course last Sunday was the holy day. And we just celebrated the Hindu new year on Monday, so a new year gives us a new opportunity to celebrate what Gujaratis have done here. I wish all those who have been celebrating, “Noutan Varshna Abhinandan”, which is Gujarati for “happy new year”.

First, perhaps, we should consider the state of Gujarat. It is obviously a state in India, which is located on the western coast, near the Arabian sea and bordering the south- eastern tip of Pakistan. It is comprised of 33 districts, it covers just under 76,000 square miles, and its population is approximately 69 million people.

The state, as we know it now, came into being in 1960, when the state of Bombay was revised, and then divided into Gujarat and Maharashtra. So it is a relatively young state in India. The capital city is Gandhinagar. The city of Ahmedabad, which is also in the state, is clearly one of the economic powerhouses of India right now. It is a major population centre and, of course, among the most crucial textile hubs in India.

Figures from the relevant Indian ministry suggest that Gujarat produces 7.69% of the entire GDP of India, so that Gujarat is ranked fifth of the 33 states and union territories of India in that regard. In terms of religious breakdown, which I mentioned earlier, the latest figures show that about 89% of the population are Hindu, 9% are Muslim, 1% follow Jainism, 0.5% follow Christianity, 0.2% follow Sikhism and 0.1% follow Buddhism.

It is fair to say that when Gujarat was created as a state, it was very run-down; in fact, it was a desert. It did not have the economic power that it now has. In fact, it is now recognised as being the economic powerhouse of India, not least because its chief minister between 2001 and 2014 was none other than Narendra Modi, who went on to become the Prime Minister of India and is now delivering for the whole of India what he delivered previously for the state of Gujarat. Under Modi’s premiership in Gujarat, the finances and wellbeing of the state were rapidly improved, in terms of the economy, the lifestyle enjoyed by its citizens and the other indicators that show Gujarat is a vibrant state. And clearly he is doing the same thing for India as a whole.

Most of the Gujaratis in the UK came here in the 1970s; there were Gujaratis who came here before that, but in general Gujaratis came here from east Africa in the 1970s. That started when Idi Amin became dictator in Uganda. Although the Gujarati community in Uganda were delivering the economic benefits of the Gujarati people to the country, Amin took against them. That was because, as a despot, he persecuted ethnic, religious and political groups with whom he did not agree. He deliberately went after the Asian and European communities in Uganda, and approximately 80,000 Asians who had come to Uganda, who were mainly Gujaratis, became the prime target of his blitz on minorities.

Of those 80,000, around 30,000 moved to the UK. I am very proud of the fact that when Idi Amin decided to evict the Gujaratis and other Indians from Uganda, it was Ted Heath, a Conservative Prime Minister, who took those people in and welcomed them. At the same time, Indira Gandhi, who was the Prime Minister of India, refused to take them back. I think that demonstrates how this country has always welcomed immigrants who will participate fully in our country.

Nevertheless, we should remember how some in Britain welcomed those people who came here. In particular, I think of Leicester City Council, which chose to put adverts in the Ugandan newspapers, saying, “Please don’t come to Leicester”. The result is that the Gujarati population now in Leicester is about 15,000, so that advertising was clearly not very effective. And good on the Gujaratis who went there, despite what they were being told.

I was at school when the first of those people arrived and I remember that most of those I met were—I have to say—a bit disorientated. They arrived in snow, which they were not used to. However, they had better English than we had, they were better educated than we were and they were very smart. But they were bewildered. None the less, many of those people I met then are still my friends today. That demonstrates how they came in, participated in the work of the UK and moved ahead straightaway.

[Dr Matthew Offord (Hendon) (Con)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing the debate. Does he agree that the decision by Idi Amin was certainly his country’s loss and our country’s gain? At the time, people would often criticise and even abuse Gujaratis for being shop owners. However, the reality is that they not only contributed to the economy, looked after their families and paid taxes, but had a significant impact on the rest of society, by bringing about the changes to the trading laws—particularly the Sunday trading laws—that we all now enjoy.

[Bob Blackman]

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. Remember, when these people were expelled from Uganda, they were told to leave everything behind; all they had was literally what they could carry and about £50 in their pockets. They were not coming here with riches and they were not necessarily able to enjoy the fruits of their labour in Uganda. Equally, this movement of people happened not only in Uganda but in Tanzania, Kenya, Ethiopia and other parts of east Africa, where people recognised that such treatment was going to happen.

When Gujaratis arrived here, the host communities were not always welcoming; I have already mentioned Leicester. However—this demonstrates one of the great characteristics of Gujaratis—they spotted an opportunity. If people remember, back in the 1970s our shops would open at 9 am, they would shut at 5 pm or 6 pm, they would close early on Wednesdays, and they were certainly not open on Sundays. Those Gujaratis clearly saw that there was an opportunity, and they went in and bought those shops, borrowing money to do so, and they ran them from about 6 am until 11 pm. They worked hard and they saved money. They wanted to save that money so that their children would have a better life than they had, which is another of the great characteristics of this community, which we have in our presence and do not recognise enough.

That work also meant that the Gujarati community very quickly got to learn the language. If they were not abreast of English already, they certainly came up to speed quickly. That meant that they could provide, as an extended family, a home for their brothers, sisters, wives, children and so on within one home and continue that process. I am glad that the process continues to this day. One of the key characteristics of the Gujarati community is their extended family ties.

I will go through what I consider to be some of the great characteristics of the Gujarati community. They believe in hard work and effort. In other words, they do not rely on state benefits; they get on with the hard work, earn their money and then use it for their families and communities. They believe in enterprise and free-market thinking. It does not get much more free-market than taking over a corner shop and turning it into an outrageous success, which has happened for a number of UK businesses.

I mentioned integration. Gujaratis have ultimate respect for authority, as we can see from their obedience to the rule of the law. According to the latest statistics, released at the end of March 2018, only 343 Hindus were in prison—Gujaratis are predominantly Hindus—out of a total prison population of nearly 83,000. That demonstrates that Gujaratis are far more likely to be victims of crime than criminals. It is their obedience to the law that often means that their contribution to the community goes unnoticed.

Gujaratis also have a great habit of looking after mum and dad. Rather than putting them in a home or saying, “Sorry, we can’t cope,” they will look after them in their own home and ensure that they are looked after in their old age. The whole of society can learn from that. Around 37% of my constituents are from the Gujarati community. Often when I am going about, particularly during the daytime, the grandparents will be looking after the children while mum and dad are at work. That is a great symbol of the extended family and how it helps mums, dad, grandparents and children to stay together as one big family.

I mentioned the desire for education and how important that is. It is very clear that where there are Gujarati families the standard of education in schools shoots up, because they are demanding. They insist that their children get the best possible education. Equally, where Hindu and other faith schools have been set up, demands for improved education are made.

The Gujarati community add value to our community at large, and I am delighted that they have done so, but often they do not speak up enough. My one criticism is whether they have learned the lessons from their forefathers and foremothers of what happened in east Africa, where their positions were taken for granted and ignored. I often say, “You must speak up and speak out for the contribution that you make, and make sure that your hard work achieves recognition.”

We should also pay tribute to the number of Hindu temples—mandirs—that have been created by the Gujarati community in the UK. At the last count, there were some 150 mandirs in the UK. I am pleased that in my short time in politics I not only was able to attend the foundation stone laying of Neasden temple, but enabled the community to buy the site for the Ealing Road temple. I was present at the inauguration of both those fantastic UK mandirs. I have also been to many other mandirs that have been set up over the past 30 years. It is important to recognise that the mandir is not just a place of worship, but a community facility where the whole community come together to learn about religion and to celebrate it.

There are enormous numbers of Hindu festivals throughout the year—hon. Members will know that because we get invited to them, and we celebrate with the community. It is important that during those times the community is warm and welcoming, and brings people in. That is a message for all religions across the country. If they are welcoming, people will understand their religion, and that will end the myths that often build up about particular religions.

Equitable Life

Debate between Matthew Offord and Bob Blackman

Thursday 31st January 2019 Commons Chamber

[Bob Blackman]

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. I am not a Treasury Minister, so unfortunately I am not in a position to honour that pledge, but I look forward to my hon. Friend the Economic Secretary giving us some good news this afternoon.

[Dr Matthew Offord (Hendon) (Con)]

I thank my hon. Friend, particularly in helping all my constituents. Does he agree that the failure to pay these moneys out over the last couple of years, particularly at the time of the financial crash when the banks and building societies were bailed out, sends out the terrible message that we will look after corporations, but we do not look after our constituents?

[Bob Blackman]

That is a serious point. During the financial crash, the view was taken that we could not afford or allow a situation in which the banks and other institutions failed. Indeed, the position of the Government successively has been that Equitable Life was too big an organisation to allow to fail. Had it failed when it was basically trading insolvently, the Government would have needed to pick up the total cost for all those victims of the scandal.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Matthew Offord and Bob Blackman

Thursday 10th June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Matthew Offord (Hendon) (Con)]

9. If he will bring forward proposals to increase the powers of local authorities to prevent infill and garden development.

[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

15. If he will bring forward proposals to increase the powers of local authorities to prevent infill and garden development.