Data Protection Bill [Lords]

Debate between Matt Hancock and Ian C. Lucas

Tuesday 15th May 2018 Commons Chamber

[The Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Matt Hancock)]

I beg to move,

That this House disagrees to Lords Amendment No. 62B proposed instead of the words left out of the Bill by Commons Amendment No. 62 but proposes amendments (za) to (a) to Clause (Review of processing of personal data for the purposes of journalism) inserted by Commons Amendment No. 109 and amendments (c) to (f) to the Bill in lieu of the Lords Amendment.

The House should be aware that some printed editions of today’s Order Paper do not include all the amendments that I am about to refer to.

We had a thorough and illuminating debate on the Data Protection Bill in this House just a few days ago, when we heard a range of perspectives from all sides on press regulation. This House plainly and clearly voted against the proposed Opposition amendments, and I thank all Members for their contributions and their constructive engagement.

Since that comprehensive debate, an amendment has been sent back by the other place for us to consider. The amendment would require the Government to establish a statutory inquiry into data protection breaches by national news publishers. It is essentially similar to new clause 18, which was proposed and defeated in this House last week. During the course of the Bill, we have repeatedly acted to take into account amendments made in the other place and to directly address concerns expressed by Members of this House. We have gone out of our way to offer concessions at every stage to make sure that the system of press regulation is both free and fair. On Report last week, we gave the Information Commissioner the powers that she needs so that those who flout the law are held to account for their actions. We introduced a data protection code of practice for the press; guidance on how to seek redress, which fits with the Independent Press Standards Organisation’s new system of binding low-cost arbitration; and a review by the Information Commissioner’s Office of how the new system is working.

I listened to the entire debate in the other place yesterday, and I understand some of the concerns raised there, both from those who essentially want to reopen the Leveson inquiry and those with deep concerns about the impact of that on the sustainability of the free press. Today, I am proposing further amendments to try to strike this vital balance and ensure that in future we have a press that is both free and fair. I hope that hon. Members will agree that this action can bring matters to a close.

I am proposing five further amendments to strengthen the system. First, we will strengthen the ICO’s review. Amendments (a) and (f) give the commissioner stronger powers to compel evidence to ensure that the review that she will undertake is both robust and comprehensive. Secondly, we will widen the ICO’s review. Amendment (za) broadens the remit to include looking at good practice in the processing of personal data for the purposes of journalism. Thirdly, we will make the review permanent. Amendment (zd) will ensure that unlike the inquiry proposed in their lordships amendment, the ICO-led review will not be a one-off, but part of the media landscape, with a review every five years thereafter.

Fourthly, we are determined that there can be no backsliding on the media’s commitment to low-cost arbitration, which we welcomed the introduction of a few weeks ago. Amendment (c) will ensure that a report on the use and effectiveness of that arbitration is laid in Parliament at least every three years and that a copy is supplied to the devolved Administrations so that they can take action in areas of devolved competence. Fifthly, amendments (d) and (e) bring all these matters automatically into force without the need for a commencement order in order to show good faith. I think that this significant set of amendments is a better approach than amendment 62B—proposed by the other place—which is unnecessary for a number of reasons.

[Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

Can the Secretary of State confirm that amendment (c) will allow him to judge the effectiveness, personally, of the alternative dispute resolution procedures? Is he not giving himself the power to mark the press and their regulatory bodies?

[Matt Hancock]

No. The purpose of amendment (c) is to make sure that a report is laid on the effectiveness of that arbitration. With this set of amendments we propose that this House can continue to debate and scrutinise the effectiveness of the self-regulation of the press without requiring statutory regulation, which we seek to avoid.

[Matt Hancock]

That will be up to the Government of the day. We are trying to ensure that the welcome moves by IPSO in the last few weeks can be debated by this House and sustained. I think that the low-cost arbitration that it has brought in is good for the press and good for ordinary people who want redress from the press. I want to see it continue, and this report will consider whether it does.

[Ian C. Lucas]

The right hon. Gentleman has just said that it would be up to the Government of the day. The whole purpose of the Leveson process was to stop politicians having direct control of the press. To my astonishment, he seems to be proposing exactly that.

[Matt Hancock]

No. I do not want to see amendment 62B from the other place in the Bill precisely because I do not want to see statutory regulation of the press; I welcome the self-regulation of the press, because we want the press to be free.

--- Later in debate ---

[Matt Hancock]

I agree comprehensively with my hon. Friend, who set it out incredibly well.

I want to take a look at the precise details of amendment 62B, because it is unnecessary. First, it promises to look into the reporting restrictions around arrests, but this work is already under way. Indeed, I have committed to working with hon. Members to get the details right. Secondly, it promises to look into the impact of social media, but we are already undertaking this with the Cairncross review, which has started to take evidence right around the country. Thirdly, it promises to look into Northern Ireland, but this has already been provided for with the review outlined in new clause 23 last week.

In addition to replicating a lot of what is already going on, the amendment goes over ground already covered by the Leveson inquiry, the three substantial police investigations and the two Select Committee investigations. There has been no shortage of inquiry. I am focused instead on getting the system right for the future. The amendment is unnecessary at a time when we should be coming together to face the challenges of the future.

I fully understand the strength of feeling on the issue of press standards. I supported the original Leveson inquiry, and I have met victims of press intrusion, including some in this House, and, worse still, have heard about the impact on Members and their families. I am fully aware of the distress caused and of how lives have been affected by false allegations, how hacking was used to access the most intimate messages and how personal information was obtained through blagging and deception, but much has changed since the inquiry, While our press are not perfect, the culture that allowed phone hacking to become the norm has gone, and, with the newly strengthened IPSO, this country now has the most robust system of redress for press intrusion that it has ever had.

[Ian C. Lucas]

In his intervention, the right hon. and learned Member for Rushcliffe (Mr Clarke) just talked about the importance of an independent regulator. Is it not the case, however, that IPSO is not independent? It was set up by the press and its terms of reference are those of the press; it is not an independent regulator. It is about time the Government accepted that. Does the Secretary of State agree?

[Matt Hancock]

No, I do not. Our proposal, which does not involve statutory regulation, is the best solution to this challenge and will ensure the separation of press and state, which is at the heart of our freedoms. It would be wrong to cross that line.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Matt Hancock and Ian C. Lucas

Thursday 10th May 2018 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

I agree incredibly strongly with my hon. Friend, who is a great champion for North Devon. Coverage there is only 85%, so there is much further to go, but I was delighted that Ofcom said yesterday that the average download speed had risen by 28% over the past year. That shows that, although there is further to go, we are making progress.

[Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

The single economic area that covers north Wales and extends into west Cheshire is one of the most successful in the UK, but the final link that it lacks is a digital infrastructure hub. We must consider carefully the bid for such a hub that the economic region has put forward. Will the Secretary of State look at that closely?

[Matt Hancock]

Yes, I have looked at the bid closely; I think it is a good one. I agree with the hon. Gentleman very strongly. I grew up in Cheshire, but I had to drive through north Wales to get to school every day, so I know the area and the links incredibly well. That border is not an economic border at all. Wrexham and Chester, north Wales and Cheshire are all one area when it comes to the economy, and I look forward to working with him on the bid.

Data Protection Bill [Lords]

Debate between Matt Hancock and Ian C. Lucas

3rd reading: House of Commons & Report stage: House of Commons
Wednesday 9th May 2018 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

The Data Protection Bill sets out a full new data protection regime for Britain, giving people more control over their data.

First, I wish to address new clauses 20 and 21, before turning to the other new clauses. These new clauses are essentially the provisions contained in sections 40 and 42 of the Crime and Courts Act 2013, although they would apply only to breaches of data protection law and only in England and Wales.

Let me first set out exactly what these new clauses would mean and then our approach to them. They would set new cost provisions for complaints against the press, which means that any publication not regulated by IMPRESS would have to pay the legal costs for any complaint against it, whether it won or lost. Many would object to that and say that it goes against natural justice. It is grounds enough to reject these new clauses on the basis that the courts would punish a publication that has done no wrong, but that is not the only reason. Let us consider the impact of these new clauses on an editor. Faced with any criticism, of any article, by anyone with the means to go to court, a publication would risk having to pay costs, even if every single fact in a story was true and even if there was a strong public interest in publishing. Let us take, for example, Andrew Norfolk, the admirable journalist who uncovered the Rotherham child abuse scandal. He said that section 40 would have made it “near impossible” to do his job. He went on to say that it would have been “inconceivable” to run the front page story naming one of the abusers in a scandal that had ruined the lives of 1,400 innocent young people with disgusting crimes that had gone on for years and years and years. Without Andrew Norfolk’s story, the scandal would have gone on for years and years more.

[Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

If the Secretary of State is so opposed to section 40, why did he support it?

[Matt Hancock]

I will come on to what has changed in the many years since 2013, not least of which is the fact that we now have a full-blown independent press regulator, the Independent Press Standards Organisation, which did not exist back then.

--- Later in debate ---

[Matt Hancock]

I have explained that new clause 23, which I hope the right hon. Gentleman supports, will in the future bring in a review of behaviour following the new system that we are putting into place. That is true here, and it is true right across the country.

[Ian C. Lucas]

May I bring the Secretary of State back to the United Kingdom and to Manchester last year? The Kerslake review said:

“The panel was shocked and dismayed by the accounts of the families of their experiences with some of the media.”

That happened last year, so the Secretary of State should not represent the threats posed by press misbehaviour as being from the past; this is a real and pressing problem now. Will he keep his promise to the victims who have suffered from this in the past and are continuing to suffer from it?

[Matt Hancock]

New clause 23 is for the whole of the UK, which includes Northern Ireland. On the hon. Gentleman’s broader point, I have read the Kerslake review, and we asked to see all the evidence that fed into it, but we have not received specific allegations. The crucial point is that the low-cost IPSO arbitration is precisely to make sure that everybody has access to justice and that the press improves the way in which it behaves so that it is both free and fair, and that is what we want to achieve.

Cambridge Analytica: Data Privacy

Debate between Matt Hancock and Ian C. Lucas

Monday 19th March 2018 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

We have not seen any evidence of the impact of these things calling into question the outcome of any electoral event, whether an election or the referendum. What we need to do is make sure that these investigations take their course.

[Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

The difficulty is that Facebook holds all the evidence, and we cannot have access to it. We know that Facebook approached probably everyone in this House before the last two general elections, indicating that it wanted to help us to win our seats. Will the Secretary of State join those of us who are very concerned about this issue and ask Facebook to come clean about all the information that it has, where it got it from and how it used it?

[Matt Hancock]

There are increased powers of transparency in the Bill. Most importantly, the Bill has in it the power for the Information Commissioner to audit and therefore to demand information to undertake such investigations. Making sure that the Bill gets on to the statute book is the single best way that we can make progress on stopping flagrant breaches in the future.

Leveson Inquiry

Debate between Matt Hancock and Ian C. Lucas

Thursday 1st March 2018 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

My hon. Friend’s second point raises a very important question. I am sure the hon. Member for West Bromwich East (Tom Watson) will be thinking very hard about that now that he has admitted that it was a mistake to take this money. On my hon. Friend’s first point, it is critical that the press and online publications act responsibly and accurately in their reporting.

[Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

Will the Secretary of State agree to meet the Dowler family, Christopher Jefferies and the McCanns to explain to them why this Conservative Government are breaking the promise given by a Conservative Prime Minister?

[Matt Hancock]

As I said, I have already met some of the victims. I have also already extended an invitation to meet victims and Hacked Off in order to discuss today’s statement and what we are doing.

Sky/Fox Update

Debate between Matt Hancock and Ian C. Lucas

Tuesday 23rd January 2018 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Of course, “Farming Today”’s loss has been Taunton Deane’s gain, as we are all conscious.

[Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

In his statement, the Secretary of State said that he will consider “all the evidence carefully” in his quasi-judicial role. How is it possible for him to consider all the evidence unless he goes forward with Leveson 2—thereby honouring the promise given by a Conservative Prime Minister—and hears the evidence that remains unheard so that he can properly judge the Murdochs’ capability and competence for governance?

[Matt Hancock]

As I think I mentioned earlier, the question that the hon. Gentleman raises is not relevant to what we are discussing, because the latter is about exercising a quasi-judicial decision within the law as it stands. As I might have mentioned already, I intend to exercise that quasi-judicial decision-making role very clearly within the process as laid out in the law as it stands.

Broadband Universal Service Obligation

Debate between Matt Hancock and Ian C. Lucas

Thursday 15th December 2016 Commons Chamber

[Ian C. Lucas]

I will not give way to the hon. Lady because she makes cheap political points.

In addition, many areas do not have the broadband infrastructure to secure superfast services. Until recently, Wrexham had only one broadband infrastructure system, which was unable to meet the demand from local businesses and individuals. The UK Government, who are responsible for devising the system, should have put in place a governance structure that created either the necessary infrastructure through a monopoly provider or a competitive market in which providers compete to build infrastructure. Their failure is that they have done neither since 2010.

I am pleased to say that in Wrexham, in the past two months, Virgin Media has begun to build its own infrastructure system, its first in north Wales, as part of the Project Lightning programme. I thank Virgin Media for responding to the pressure I have consistently put it under to introduce that system, but if we are to have a universal system right across the UK, it is incumbent on the Government and regulators to create the system necessary right across the UK. That they have not done so already is a failure on their part.

[The Minister for Digital and Culture (Matt Hancock)]

rose—

[Ian C. Lucas]

I give way to the hon. Gentleman.

[Matt Hancock]

Right hon. Gentleman. I wanted to improve the quality of debate by bringing a couple of facts to bear, because the hon. Gentleman is making a highly politicised and partisan speech. It is just worth pointing out to the House that in Wrexham, a town I know well, 95% of premises have access to superfast broadband, and by next summer that figure will be 98%.

Digital Economy Bill

Debate between Matt Hancock and Ian C. Lucas

3rd reading: House of Commons & Legislative Grand Committee: House of Commons & Programme motion No. 3: House of Commons & Report stage: House of Commons
Monday 28th November 2016 Commons Chamber

[Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

The Minister is being very generous in giving way. He mentioned the computing curriculum, which I assume relates only to England. What discussions has he had with the devolved nations about these issues?

[Matt Hancock]

The Government have had significant discussions with the devolved nations on these questions. They, of course, treat these questions differently—there is a different system in Scotland and Wales, and in Northern Ireland in fact—and it is a matter for them. The hon. Gentleman is quite right that the response I gave about the computing curriculum is a matter for England, although most of the Bill involves UK matters. I am very happy to clear up that point.

The Public Bill Committee considered the subject matter of new clause 32, which calls for the regulator to approve age-verification providers and to publish a code of practice with which the providers must comply. As I said in Committee, such a measure is not necessary because clause 15 requires the regulator to publish guidance about the types of arrangements it will treat as being in compliance. That may include the characteristics of age-verification controls that would be considered acceptable. I have been made aware of a number of proposed technical solutions for age-verification controls during the passage of the Bill. Clause 15 already takes into account the need for guidance in that area.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Matt Hancock and Ian C. Lucas

Thursday 6th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

5. If he will take steps to tighten the regulation of fracking in the UK.

[The Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change (Matthew Hancock)]

It is incumbent on us to explore the potential of domestic supplies of shale gas safely and carefully. The UK has a strong regulatory system and we will be working closely with the public, regulators and industry to ensure that regulation remains robust.

[Ian Lucas]

There is legitimate concern about the safety implications of fracking. The Labour party has said that all proposed sites should have an environmental impact assessment. Do the Government agree with that approach?

[Matthew Hancock]

I agree that it is important to ensure that as we explore for this domestic energy resource, we do so cautiously and carefully. Environmental impact assessments are an important part of the planning process. The House is considering the Infrastructure Bill and we will listen to the debates on that.

Rolls-Royce (Aerospace Group)

Debate between Matt Hancock and Ian C. Lucas

Wednesday 5th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[Matthew Hancock]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. The supply chain is vital, and it relies on Rolls-Royce for contracts, but it also relies on Rolls-Royce because it has a policy of training apprentices, and some of those apprentices then go out into the supply chain, making sure the supply chain gets the skills training it needs. That has worked incredibly effectively, so I am very pleased that the Rolls-Royce apprenticeship programme will continue and that that was part of the announcement, because the point my hon. Friend made is incredibly important.

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

The aerospace growth partnership and the defence growth partnership are welcome long-term commitments by the Government, very strongly supported by the Opposition, to the aerospace industry. Is the Minister as disappointed as I am that that long-termism from Government is not mirrored by long-termism by Rolls-Royce? Should we not also have a long-term approach to our aerospace industry from large companies in the sector such as Rolls-Royce?

[Matthew Hancock]

I welcome the Opposition’s support for the aerospace growth partnership and the defence growth partnership. These are good models that are broadly very successful and are being copied around the world. I am sure the hon. Gentleman will recognise that having a plan that works in the long term is not the same as keeping everything the same, and changes do have to be made from time to time—most of the time, in fact—to ensure companies stay competitive within that long-term framework. That is why our task is to make sure there are more jobs in engineering and that those affected by this decision can get those jobs.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Matt Hancock and Ian C. Lucas

Thursday 4th September 2014 Commons Chamber

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

15. What steps he is taking to ensure the safety of fracking.

[The Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change (Matthew Hancock)]

Shale gas, carefully extracted, offers the potential to improve the security of Britain’s energy supplies and create jobs. All onshore projects are subject to scrutiny through the planning system, the Environment Agency and the Health and Safety Executive.

[Ian Lucas]

Many of my constituents are expressing concerns about fracking. If the Minister wants to take the public with him when he is dealing with energy applications, will he agree to Labour’s amendments to the Infrastructure Bill to allow baseline assessments so that people’s concerns can be assessed?

[Matthew Hancock]

We are looking carefully at all the amendments that have been tabled to the Infrastructure Bill. In several cases, the amendments reiterate what already happens. We want to ensure that we make the most of Britain’s indigenous energy supplies in a way that is safe and secure, creates jobs and will give us better security of supply. We will consider all measures to try to do that.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Matt Hancock and Ian C. Lucas

Thursday 10th April 2014 Commons Chamber

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

Is it not interesting that no Conservatives or Liberal Democrats are standing up to ask a question about small business? I saw a small business in Wrexham and spoke to Mr Phil Jackson of Fotofire, who told me that the Jobs Growth Wales scheme has enabled him to employ young people in a rapidly expanding media business. Will the Minister do something positive by looking at a scheme that is providing jobs for more than 9,000 young people in Wales, with 75% employment for those who go on the scheme in the first place?

[Matthew Hancock]

I am very glad to say that unemployment is falling throughout Wales as part of our long-term economic plan across the country. I am sure that in Wrexham, as elsewhere in the country, small businesses will be celebrating the fact that they are getting £2,000 off their jobs tax, which the Labour party has proposed to put up.