Digital Economy Bill

Debate between Matt Hancock and Lord Vaizey of Didcot

Tuesday 13th September 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for Digital and Culture (Matt Hancock)]

They say that success has many fathers, and I hope that is true of the Bill because this debate has been a veritable custody battle. My right hon. Friend the Member for Maldon (Mr Whittingdale), whose name appears first on the back of the Bill, gave a second opening speech to explain where much of it has come from. My right hon. Friend the Member for Didcot—[Hon. Members: “Wantage.”]—made a brilliant speech. I think of my right hon. Friend the Member for Wantage (Mr Vaizey) as the Member for Didcot because of that great big power station, which he so resembles; sadly, it has now fallen down. He developed much of the detail of the Bill and deserves enormous credit for his work.

Between us, the Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office, who, with me, will take the data measures through the Committee, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State, who we could say is the mother of the Bill, and I—I am honoured and privileged to be the Bill Minister—all claim credit for parts of the Bill. It has been a team effort, and a huge amount of work over several years has gone into bringing the Bill to this point. I want to thank all the Ministers and the many officials and stakeholders who have been involved in its development.

This has been an excellent debate, with insightful and thought-provoking contributions from all sides of the House. We have heard about the increasing importance of digital technology and infrastructure to our constituents and the economy. I am glad that there seems to be a consensus about the importance of the subject. We have heard some impassioned pleas to ensure that we protect the vulnerable, and the Bill takes steps to do so.

Technology is transforming the world in which we live—our homes, work and daily lives—and the Bill seeks to make the benefits of those transformations as big as possible while mitigating some of the inevitable costs. We need to ensure that our laws and infrastructure keep pace with this great change. We must tackle the problems the change brings and seize on the opportunities.

We have the best superfast broadband coverage and highest take-up of all major European nations, but we want us to have more. Although nine out of every 10 homes and businesses can now access superfast speeds, and we are on track to hit the target of 95% coverage by 2017, we want high-speed broadband for all. The Bill takes the next step, with the universal service obligation. In the same way, as we deliver through infrastructure the internet that enriches our lives, we will also take steps to protect children from online pornography, addressing harms highlighted by many in the Chamber.

Likewise, the Government Digital Service has made the UK Government one of the first digital-by-default states, in a model replicated the world over, but we can do more. The Bill will strengthen how we use Government data to deliver better public services.

[Mr Vaizey]

I read press reports about the Government Digital Service being broken up and distributed around Departments. I always thought that the service was a fantastic innovation. It behaved like a start-up, challenging and pushing the envelope. During his remarks will the Minister give a helpful update to the House on the position of the Government Digital Service?

[Matt Hancock]

I reassure my right hon. Friend that the Government Digital Service goes from strength to strength. It secured significant extra funding in the spending review and is delivering, as it has done and will continue to in future.

--- Later in debate ---

[Matt Hancock]

The hon. Gentleman tempts me on the BBC charter. I can tell him that it will be published shortly, and that there will be a debate in both Houses to take note of it, which is the normal process.

[Mr Vaizey]

Talking of publishing documents, I wonder whether, given the brilliance of the Bill and the forthcoming charter, my right hon. Friend could also illuminate the House on whether he plans to publish a fantastic digital strategy showing how the United Kingdom can thrive by investing in its hugely successful technology industries.

[Matt Hancock]

The Government as a whole are an enthusiast for industrial strategy, and digital must underpin the industrial strategy. As the digital Minister, I am a great enthusiast for digital strategy, and I pay tribute to the work that my predecessor did and the service that he gave. He did an enormous amount of work in both the cultural and the digital spheres to ensure that the United Kingdom was at the forefront of digital nations; indeed, I would say that all his work contributed to a strategy. He said that he wanted, in future, to use Broadband Delivery UK as a taskforce to go around the country improving the delivery of broadband. It was almost as though he was looking for a job.

[Mr Vaizey]

While we are on the subject of how hard I worked as a Minister, let me point out that I worked incredibly hard on radio. I wonder whether my right hon. Friend could illuminate me on when he will introduce the proposals for the deregulation of radio on which I worked so hard.

Music Venues (Disabled Access)

Debate between Matt Hancock and Lord Vaizey of Didcot

Tuesday 17th January 2012 Westminster Hall

[Mr Vaizey]

At the end of the debate, I was going to sum up some of the things I have learned in preparing for it. One thing I would like to take from the debate is the opportunity not only to meet properly with Attitude is Everything, but, potentially, to expand the Department’s work on leading the debate on these issues.

At the moment, the Department has an e-inclusion accessibility forum, which I have been closely involved with since I became a Minister. The forum works with charities to ensure that people in a digital age have access to the internet and to phone technology, but I have been struck by the lack of engagement from business and telecoms companies, which is unbelievably frustrating. In that respect, we would, for example, like to have video technology that enables deaf people to use sign language, and I have told all the telecoms operators, “Please come to me with a cost-effective solution,” but they have not done that. Eventually, of course, I will have to regulate through Ofcom to make them do that, but it would be so much simpler if they came to me and did it.

Similarly, if we bring a group of disabled charities together, we can work to move this agenda forward in respect of not only live music venues, but comedy clubs, as the hon. Lady said. During the debate, I was also thinking about cinemas. We have just published a film policy review consultation, which does not cover disability access issues, but when the Government respond to it in the middle of March, we will address those issues.

My hon. Friend the Member for West Suffolk gave a comprehensive summary of Attitude is Everything’s report. He mentioned the Sage Gateshead, an organisation I have got to know extremely well over the years. It is fantastically well led by Anthony Sargent, and it is a great example of a national venue with strong support from a local authority. It is excellent in a whole range of different areas, but I am delighted that it is also a stand-out venue in terms of providing access to people with disabilities. Likewise, it was good to read that KOKO, a commercial venue, has picked up silver status for accessibility. The vast majority of UK music venues are privately run, and it is important to build a good dialogue with such organisations.

I join everyone in the Chamber in congratulating Attitude is Everything on an excellent report. Now, of course, comes the difficult bit, when I have to respond to my hon. Friend’s call for action. He mentioned the recommendations at the end of the report, and specifically the one that disabled access become a condition of music venues receiving entertainment licences. As he will be aware, we have recently consulted on our plans to deregulate licensing, and that process, which is very much in line with the coalition Government’s aim of reducing red tape and, therefore, costs, aims to make it much easier for venues of all shapes and sizes to put on live music, theatre and dance events.

The good thing about deregulation is that more venues will provide live music, but the unintended consequence might be that more venues are under scrutiny for not providing access for people with disabilities. The measures will cover community halls, amateur theatres, circuses and other arts organisations that have found the licensing requirements expensive and restrictive. Of course, other venues, such as schools and village halls, which are used regularly by fundraisers, face the same requirements as commercial operators. Low-risk community events have been cancelled because of the onerous burden of licensing requirements, and we are seeking to put an end to that so that schools and community groups in the third sector have more opportunities to put on such events. That will increase revenues and the money raised for good causes.

Obviously, we start with the attitude that we are not keen to place further conditions on venues that wish to put on events. I do not simply want to say no to my hon. Friend, so let me put the Government’s perspective. As he said, access issues are covered by different legislation. The Equality Act 2010 ensures that organisations that provide goods, facilities and services are required to make a “reasonable adjustment” where a disabled person would be at a “substantial disadvantage” to a person who is not disabled in carrying out a particular job or—this is relevant to today’s debate—in accessing a particular service.

The idea of a “reasonable adjustment” is important, because it makes the judgment dependent on the size of the organisation and the resources available to it. I am delighted that a number of venues offer services such as multiple hearing induction loop systems, but I am not sure everyone would agree that it is fair that every venue of every kind, including small village halls, should have to offer such things as a matter of course.

We are confident that the 2010 Act, which subsumed the Disability Discrimination Act 1995, provides reasonable assurance for disabled attendees. My hon. Friend mentioned the change made in Scotland, and I will take away a commitment to examine it and to write to the Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport, my hon. Friend the Member for Weston-super-Mare (John Penrose), who is responsible for licensing issues, to ask whether it should be a factor in his deliberations.

[Matthew Hancock]

Nobody would want venues to close or not to offer music as a result of our pursuing this agenda. However, the question is not whether the law is in place, which it is, as my hon. Friend says, but whether there is enforcement. Nobody wants the law to exist, but to be unenforced. In Scotland, the live question is about the improved enforcement of whatever legislation is in place. In that respect, the reasonableness test is important. If we have a rule, however, it is important that we make sure it is enforced.

[Mr Vaizey]

I certainly agree with my hon. Friend. Again, to a certain extent, and perhaps unintentionally, he issues a challenge to different parts of the Government to join up. It is worth my taking away the tone of the debate and communicating with the Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, my hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke (Maria Miller), who has responsibility for the disabled, about the measures the Government are taking on enforcement across the board under the 2010 Act. If we have a meeting with a group of disabled charities to discuss what is happening on the ground, we can certainly talk about enforcement.

To return to my point about Attitude is Everything being a stand-out charity, one of the good things it does, besides providing encouragement, is to provide training so that people do not have an excuse for not understanding what the law requires of them. That would be one subject for discussion in relation to how we increase training opportunities for venues and how we work with the music industry and some of the big players to ensure that adequate training programmes are in place for their staff and that there is an adequate understanding at all levels of the requirements of the 2010 Act.

Earlier, I picked up on the point made by the hon. Member for Aberdeen South about the economic self-interest of making changes to attract more customers and, more importantly, more loyal customers. The music industry faces radical changes in a digital age, and it is having to change its business model for selling music, but it is also having to look at live music as a potentially important income stream for the future. That is an important point.

Time is running out, and I want to end by saying that the debate is very timely, because this is the year of the Olympics and, more importantly, the Paralympics. I can assure my hon. Friend the Member for West Suffolk that the London 2012 festival, the cultural festival that will run alongside the Olympics, takes these issues very seriously. It is working with all its partners to ensure that disability access is at the forefront of their minds. Some redevelopment will be undertaken on the south bank, and although its primary purpose is to redevelop the site, disability access will be an additional benefit. We also have a number of programmes in the cultural Olympiad. For example, Film Nation: Shorts actively targets disabled film makers.

This has been a good and useful debate, and I hope I can take forward some of the issues that have been raised.

Internet Pornography

Debate between Matt Hancock and Lord Vaizey of Didcot

Tuesday 23rd November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Vaizey]

I hear what my hon. Friend says, and I will address it in a moment, but first I want to talk about the UK Council for Child Internet Safety. I do not think that this is a dead end, because UKCCIS does incredibly important work. It focuses on content, self-regulation and joined-up government. Although, as I have said, we have a legal framework, that framework alone will not keep our children safe online. Real, effective protection for children can be achieved through parents, charities, industry, law enforcement authorities and Government working together. That is why Professor Tanya Byron—to whom my hon. Friend referred—was asked to take charge of an independent review on child internet safety, which led directly to the launch of UKCCIS.

UKCCIS is chaired by Ministers from the Department for Education and the Home Office, and Ministers from other Departments, including mine, attend its meetings regularly. It brings together more than 170 organisations from across industry, including internet service providers, the third sector, law enforcement authorities and the devolved Administrations, so that they can take positive steps to help children to stay safe online.

I assure my hon. Friend that the Government are working with the internet industry, through UKCCIS, to create an online environment in which children are protected from potentially harmful or inappropriate content. We want our young people to develop the knowledge, skills and resilience that will enable them to avoid accessing such content, and, if they do come across it, to avoid it in future and report it to the appropriate authorities when it causes major concern. UKCCIS is also working to encourage parents to take responsibility for what their children see online. I hear what my hon. Friend says about the need for ISPs to block this content, but I think it important for parents to take responsibility, and to use the filters and parental controls that are available in current technology to prevent their children from accessing harmful material.

My hon. Friend pointed out that people access pornography not just through their computers, but through their mobile phones. That is another issue to which I am hugely sympathetic, and it has been raised with me in my capacity as a constituency Member of Parliament. As my hon. Friend said, all UK operators operate a parental control regime on mobile phones that should prevent access to over-18 sites. It is set as a default on all phones when they are purchased, and it is for the consumer to request its removal, subject to proof of age. Ofcom provides detailed information on parental controls and access to adult content on its website. However, that goes only some way to protecting young mobile users from harmful content. Unfortunately, it is not possible to tackle content that is shared via bluetooth, for example, on a phone-to-phone basis. That is why the work of organisations such as UKCCIS is so important

What causes me to have a huge amount of sympathy with what my hon. Friend has said is the fact that I do not subscribe to the view that internet service providers are simply dumb pipes. In opposition and now in government, I have waged something of a campaign to that effect. According to one school of thought, ISPs are there simply to channel the content to homes, and should not interfere with what goes down their pipes. It is often said that asking them to do so would be the equivalent of asking Royal Mail to open every envelope and parcel and have a look at the contents. In that context, the hon. Lady rightly identified a red herring in relation to both expense and the idea of regulation. I also believe that we should not over-regulate the internet, and that self-regulation should be the first stop before we consider Government regulation or legislation. However, I think it should be put on the record that ISPs can play a role, and, indeed, have played a very effective role in combating child abuse content online.

[Matthew Hancock (West Suffolk) (Con)]

I commend my hon. Friend the Member for Devizes (Claire Perry) on initiating such an important debate so early in the evening. I am glad that the Minister has enunciated the principle that ISPs are not merely a pipe through which information flows, but he has not taken the opportunity to point out that they could do more. Will he take that opportunity now?

[Mr Vaizey]

Now I understand why my hon. Friend is regarded as a rising star. I was about to say that ISPs could do more. My hon. Friend’s anticipation of my next sentence was almost uncanny, especially as I am now speaking off the cuff rather than from a prepared text.

We have seen that ISPs can do very effective work in removing child abuse websites. We also know—and I mentioned this during my speech on net neutrality last week—that they can manage the traffic that crosses their network in order to give their consumers a good service. A couple of weeks ago, I held a round table with ISPs and rights holders from the music and film industries and from sport to discuss what measures we could take to provide more legal content as the Digital Economy Act 2010 comes down the line. It seems to me that, given that rights holders are fully aware of the websites that are distributing their content illegally, ISPs could do more in that regard. However, what I learned from the meeting was that it is important to arrange for people to sit around a table, discuss the issues, and seek ways in which we can work together to make the system operate effectively.

After that meeting, which was productive—I felt that in two hours we had made substantial progress—I made it absolutely clear that I would follow it up. It would not be a one-off meeting that we would forget about, perhaps returning to it in a year’s time. I should like to offer the same opportunity to my hon. Friend the Member for Devizes, and perhaps to my hon. Friend the Member for Enfield, Southgate (Mr Burrowes) and other interested Members, as well as to charities and other organisations that are involved in the debate.

If we do have such a meeting, it must not interfere with, or cut across, the important work that UKCCIS is doing. However, I think it important for the side that is concerned about the issue—which consists of most of us, especially those of us who are parents—to sit around a table with ISPs, air their concerns, ask questions, and establish what further action they can take, and for the ISPs to respond. I assure my hon. Friend the Member for Devizes that if we have such a meeting, I will not leave it there. We will see what progress we make, and we will follow it up.