Equitable Life

Debate between Mark Williams and Stephen Lloyd

Thursday 26th February 2015 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Lloyd (Eastbourne) (LD)]

I apologise for being a few minutes late at the beginning of the debate. It is a pleasure to co-sponsor it with my hon. Friend the Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) and the hon. Member for Leeds North East (Fabian Hamilton). I would like to compliment the latter on being as active during the last Government as he has been during this Government to fight the Equitable Life pensions corner. I pay tribute to him for that.

Many have spoken today, and this issue has been going on throughout the term of this Parliament and for many years before that. I am keen not to repeat what others have said. Let me make it clear what we are asking for through this debate, which is for

“the Government to make a commitment to provide full compensation during the lifetime of the next Parliament as the economy and public finances continue to recover.”

That wording was deliberate. We recognised, as we always recognised on the all-party parliamentary group, that we inherited a catastrophic economic situation so that providing the full amount of money would cause real problems. I believe that we have been reasonable and sensible all the way through. We understand the challenges faced by the Government, and the motion, as I have clarified, recognises that. We are fully aware of the challenges with our own economy and the global economy, so we are not asking for everything appropriate to be paid immediately. Rather, we advocate achieving doing that over the next few years as the economy recovers, which is fair and reasonable.

Ann Abraham was the parliamentary ombudsman all those years ago, producing the final report in 2008. She said:

“The central story of this report is that this robust system of regulation was not, in respect of the Society, implemented appropriately—that is, consistently, fairly, and with proper regard to the interests of those directly affected”.

All of us who are present today, as well as the 200 or so members of the all-party parliamentary group, recognise that the ombudsman herself saw that the regulatory framework had failed, and we understand the financial challenges. However, the reason we are here, and the reason the all-party parliamentary group, with the support of EMAG, has not stopped lobbying and campaigning throughout the current Parliament—I was privileged to become its secretary literally within weeks of being elected in 2010—is that this is a matter of not just probity, but honour. The regulator failed, and this was Government regulation.

[Mr Mark Williams]

My hon. Friend is right to say that it is a matter of honour, but it is also a matter of urgency. He is making his case in a very modest way. May I invite him to endorse what was said earlier about the urgent need to settle individual claims—I think that the figure we heard was £115 million—and to address the issue of elderly people whose cases may well not be settled before they die unless we act now?

[Stephen Lloyd]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. A number of people are now reaching an age when something needs to be done extremely quickly. A constituent of mine, Billy Murphy, a variety artist for 70 years, had been lobbying me patiently, and I had been supporting him, until he sadly passed away in January. He had been making contributions for many years, and he was a very good example of the people to whom my hon. Friend and many others have referred: decent, hard-working people who were prudent and put money aside. Those people have lost out, not because of their own inadequacy —not because they took a punt, or played the stock market—but because they invested in a well-established and respected pensions company that was regulated by the Government. It was regulated by the Government: that is the whole point, and that is why we as a nation, whichever Government are in power, have a real responsibility to do what is right.

Unscrupulous Builders

Debate between Mark Williams and Stephen Lloyd

Wednesday 9th February 2011 Westminster Hall

[Stephen Lloyd (Eastbourne) (LD)]

Thank you, Mr Davies, for giving me the opportunity to speak in the debate. I welcome the Minister, and look forward to his response after we have all spoken.

As an officer of the all-party groups on ageing and older people and on consumer affairs and trading standards, I feel that the issue of unscrupulous builders is of the utmost importance and warrants the thorough consideration it will be given now. I come from a business background—I run a small company and have worked as a business development director in the corporate sector—so I am not a politician whose default position is, “Let’s have more regulation.” However, in the building and renovation trade, many rogue builders across the UK have been ripping people off for far too long.

In my judgment, something must be done, and the Government must take steps to protect vulnerable people from cowboy builders. There are three core issues to address: first, the routine targeting of the most vulnerable people in our society; secondly, the way that unscrupulous traders create an unfair marketplace and plague the legitimate building industry; and thirdly, how we can act to stop the proliferation of fraudulent work.

Recently, a rogue trader was convicted in my constituency. That was a good result considering how difficult it is to prosecute such criminals under current legislation. During the proceedings, it came to light that he had accepted cash and cheques from customers in Eastbourne for sums of up to £23,000. One of the victims was an elderly widower, which is not uncommon. He received redress from the television show “Cowboy Builders.” The programme surprised my constituent by fixing the damage done to his property while he was in hospital recovering from a heart attack. That was a good deed and much appreciated, even if it was for the purposes of entertainment. Although we can take comfort from the happy ending to my constituent’s ordeal, it is unacceptable that he felt compelled to turn to a television show rather than to the authorities. However, given the lack of adequate, robust legislation to protect citizens from such criminals, his decision is easily understood and was, frankly, wholly rational.

We have a duty to those whom we serve to do something about the weakness of the current legislation, and I hope that colleagues will join me in calling for a formal consultation into the merits of a compulsory licensing system for the construction industry. Gangs such as the group of Gloucestershire scam builders convicted and jailed in January for defrauding householders of nearly £1 million cannot be allowed to continue unabated. The three men involved conned more than 50 people in 14 counties, and I extend my sincere appreciation to Gloucestershire police, who worked tirelessly and diligently throughout the three-year investigation to bring the fraudsters to justice. I echo the sentiments of the detective chief inspector who led the investigation. He characterised the perpetrators as, “Criminals, pure and simple.”

Such unlawful behaviour must be taken seriously. Consumer rights experts report an average of 100,000 complaints about rogue builders each year, and trading standards organisations reveal that £170 million is stolen from UK home owners by cowboy builders every year. We are told that 2.4 million people have had problems with cold-calling property repairers; it is imperative that we take action.

[Mr Mark Williams (Ceredigion) (LD)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing the debate, and support the clarity that he seeks through a licensing regime. Does he agree that one of the strongest arguments in favour of that is the frustration shared by many of our constituents? One of my constituents, in pursuit of justice after an experience with a cowboy builder, has written to the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors, the Insolvency Service, the Property Ombudsman, the Legal Complaints Service and the Trading Standards Institute, but so far to no avail. I welcome my hon. Friend’s attempts to bring some clarity to this area of concern.

[Stephen Lloyd]

I thank my hon. Friend for his extremely well-made intervention. I have heard about such cases again and again both in my constituency and as an officer of the all-party group for consumer affairs and trading standards. We are in a ludicrous position where criminals are ripping off people, often elderly people, up and down the country. However, because they are clever at using—or abusing—the law, it is almost impossible to pin them down and seek redress. That is an absurdity, and times need to change.

The issue is not simply about providing adequate protection to the public; the trouble caused by such activities is far-reaching and widespread. I know some tremendous local builders in Eastbourne, but the actions of the cowboy builders impede legitimate businesses and create an unfair marketplace for the many—the vast majority of builders, renovation companies and tradespeople who are wholly legitimate. The problem causes particular difficulty for the small firms that we are counting on to help bring us out of recession. Because the unscrupulous individuals who prey on the public operate outside the law, they often do not pay VAT. That gives cowboy builders an illegitimate financial advantage by enabling them to charge much lower prices—20% lower—than responsible legitimate companies, thereby distorting the marketplace and creating unfair competition.

That practice results in a significant loss of tax revenue, because much of the work that would be invoiced is currently paid cash in hand and is off the books, resulting in an enormous revenue loss to the Exchequer. Given the current economic situation, it would be foolish to pass up the opportunity to clamp down on such behaviour. It is deeply unfair to law-abiding citizens who pay their taxes to continue allowing fraudsters and charlatan building companies not to contribute their fair share. Beyond that, a further worry must be addressed. Around 80% of the informal economy—sometimes known as the black economy—is work undertaken by companies that are completely outside the tax system. I have already mentioned VAT, but such evaders are much more likely to avoid other key legal obligations, such as health and safety legislation. That puts their customers not only at a financial, pecuniary risk, but at physical risk.