High Cost Credit Bill
Debate between Mark Durkan and Jo Swinson
Jo Swinson
I will confirm that we do not believe that this Bill is the best way to tackle the significant problems in the industry. Obviously, it is up to the House to decide, as is always the case with such matters, whether the Bill should go into Committee, but I and my Government colleagues will not support it if it goes to a vote.
Mark Durkan
A few moments ago another Minister, the Under-Secretary of State for Health, the hon. Member for Broxtowe (Anna Soubry), said that policy should be made on the basis of evidence from elsewhere. There is clear evidence from many other jurisdictions—not least at least 13 states in the United States of America—that competent legislation and regulation exactly such as those proposed by this Bill can be effective and telling. Why are the Government rejecting moving on the basis of evidence and examples from elsewhere?
Jo Swinson
We absolutely are moving ahead on the basis of evidence. We have legislated on this issue. We are transferring the issue of consumer credit to a new regulator. It is not as if there is no legislation. We agree that tough regulation is needed to deal with the significant problems in this market, and that regulation is happening. I have confidence in it and in what has happened already, which I will set out. This is about whether further legislation is needed at this juncture and I think that that is the only issue about which there is slight disagreement.
Jo Swinson
The disagreement may be slight, but it is on the basic principle of whether the FCA is best placed to regulate these matters or whether the Government should mandate it to do so through legislation. That is a significant difference in principle.
Jo Swinson
I said that I would give way to the hon. Member for Worsley and Eccles South and then make some progress, but I will be happy to take further interventions later.
Jo Swinson
I will give way to my hon. Friend the Member for Shipley and to the hon. Member for Foyle (Mark Durkan), and then I will make a little more progress.
Mark Durkan
Perhaps the Joker.
A few minutes ago, the Minister made the point that the problems are complex and that the solutions will not be simple. Why, then, is she adopting a position of leaving it to the untested, unproven role of the FCA? Simples. That seems to be the Minister’s position and seems to contradict the very arguments that she is making about the nature of this problem. I hope that the role of the FCA will work, but it will be one role among its many other competing responsibilities. We as a Parliament have responsibilities, too. The hon. Gentleman’s Bill is giving us the chance to meet those responsibilities.
Jo Swinson
I understand the hon. Gentleman’s point, but, first, the Financial Conduct Authority is not the only thing that is happening; and secondly, because of the complexity, it is better to have a regulator that is able to make rules and to change them quickly, because markets change quickly. That is the whole point of having a regulator that can be responsive. Otherwise, if primary legislation sets out everything prescriptively, it is much more difficult to respond to changes in the market. Indeed, the Financial Conduct Authority has also made it clear that this is a priority for it. I hope that that provides some reassurance.