Northern Ireland (Welfare Reform) Bill

Debate between Mark Durkan and Alan Meale

Monday 23rd November 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mark Durkan]

I beg to move amendment 1, page 1,  line 3, at beginning insert

‘Subject to subsection (3A) below,’.

This amendment provides limitations on the Secretary of State’s power to recommend that an Order in Council be made affecting social security and child support maintenance, and employment and training for employment, in Northern Ireland.

[The Temporary Chair (Sir Alan Meale)]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Amendment 2, page 1, line 18, at end insert—

‘(3A) An Order in Council under subsection (1) or any order or regulations under subsection (2) may not, in particular—

(a) prescribe a period of more than 3 days for which a universal credit claim does not arise;

(b) provide for any sanction period of more than 26 weeks;

(c) amend section 129A (appropriate maximum housing benefit) of the Social Security Contributions and Benefits (Northern Ireland) Act 1992;

(d) provide for a benefit cap;

(e) make any limit on the number of children for which any child benefit, child tax credit or child element of universal credit can be claimed;

(f) specify or determine the level or form of sanctions;

(g) make any provision or have any effect which would provide a claimant with less than 15 days’ notice in which to provide a good reason why sanctions should not be applied in that claimant’s case.’.

This amendment limits the changes that the Secretary of State may make through an Order in Council as regards sanctions, a benefit cap, entitlement to child benefit and limitations on housing benefit, leaving these issues to be dealt with under the existing devolved arrangements.

Amendment 3, page 2, line 6, at end insert

‘and the Northern Ireland Assembly.

Provided that the text of the statutory instrument containing the Order shall be laid before the Northern Ireland Assembly seven days before approval can be given.’.

This amendment requires that the Northern Ireland Assembly approves a draft of any Order in Council made under this bill before it is made, and that sufficient time is given for due consideration.

Clause stand part.

New clause 1—Duty to report—

‘(1) In respect of an Order in Council under section 1(1) or any order or regulations under section 1(2) the Secretary of State will, within twelve months, publish a report of its operation which must include—

(a) comparative data and information on numbers of claimants and, where relevant, dependants and the relative value of benefits, allowances, payments or credits so as to reflect any difference in provision before and after the operation of the order or regulation;

(b) assessment of any impact in respect of section 75 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998; and

(c) reflection of observations from independent welfare advice service providers.

(2) In publishing any report under subsection (1), the Secretary of State must—

(a) lay the report before the House of Commons;

(b) send the report to the Speaker of the Northern Ireland Assembly; and

(c) be available to appear before a committee of the Northern Ireland Assembly to address, or answer on, the report.’

This amendment confers a responsibility on the Secretary of State to report on the first twelve months of operations and impacts on any orders made under this Act. It would ensure the Secretary of State had to lay the report before the House of Commons, send the report to the Speaker of the Northern Ireland Assembly and appear before a Northern Ireland Assembly committee.

[Mark Durkan]

It is a pleasure to be here under your chairmanship, Sir Alan, even if it is not a pleasure to be dealing with this sort of fast-track, microwave legislation. It is unfortunate that, under the terms of the allocation of time motion, although my hon. Friends the Members for Belfast South (Dr McDonnell) and for South Down (Ms Ritchie) and I have been able to table these amendment and will be able to speak to them, we will not be able to vote on them. We tabled amendments 1, 2 and 3 and new clause 1 in this group and another amendment that will be discussed along with clause 3 stand part in a later group. I will stay off that for now.

The Second Reading debate went a lot wider than the content of the Bill. In Committee, we will look at the Bill as we debate the clauses and amendments. I will introduce our amendments by following up on what we said on Second Reading. Our amendments would create a different delineation and more definition in respect of what functions will be exercised, following the legislative consent motion and the passage of the Bill, by the Secretary of State and what functions will remain to be exercised by a devolved Minister working through the devolved Assembly. For us, that seems to be a more sensible way to do things.

Our amendments relate to issues that Members of this House from different parties in Northern Ireland and, indeed, from beyond Northern Ireland have expressed concerns about and that a wide range of people in the Northern Ireland Assembly have expressed concerns about. Therefore, we do not think it would do any injury to the course that the Secretary of State says will be open after the passage of the Bill or to the path forward on welfare reform that the DUP has talked about for these amendment to be considered.

We are told that it is entirely compatible for the same powers to be held concurrently in the Assembly and in Westminster. It must be equally compatible if we make sure that there is agreement and understanding about who will take the lead in respect of each particular function, given the sensitivities and issues involved. If the powers that are taken by the Secretary of State are about satisfying the requirements of the Treasury and others in respect of levying fines and penalties and controlling the rules and rates for benefits, some of the other matters, such as the flexibility of administration and sanctions, could safely and properly be left with the devolved Assembly and the devolved Minister. That is the purpose of amendments 1, 2 and 3. I will address new clause 1 separately.

Amendment 1 would provide some exceptions to the powers that will come to the Secretary of State. Clause 1(3) provides a sweeping range of powers for the Secretary of State in respect of Orders in Council or subsequent regulations, and the amendment would introduce a new subsection to qualify those powers. Amendment 2 would restrict the exercise of powers that would come to the Secretary of State, so that direct rule powers could not be used to

“prescribe a period of more than 3 days for which a universal credit claim does not arise”—

again, that picks up on an issue that has been voiced by many people, not just those in Northern Ireland but people coping with benefits in Britain.

Under amendment 2, the Secretary of State would not have power to

“provide for any sanction period of more than 26 weeks”,

or to amend housing benefit under the Social Security Contributions and Benefits (Northern Ireland) Act 1992. The Secretary of State would also not be allowed to

“provide for a benefit cap”,

and as the Minister told us when winding up the Second Reading debate, changes to the lower rate of the benefit cap under the current Welfare Reform and Work Bill will come in a subsequent Order in Council following this Bill. Many hon. Members—including DUP Members —expressed concern about the lowering of that benefit cap and voted to amend or oppose it, so I would have thought it entirely consistent for them to support an amendment to limit the power of the Secretary of State in that regard.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mark Durkan]

I beg to move amendment 4, page 2,  line 35, leave out “31 December 2016” and insert “1 June 2016”.

This amendment seeks to bring forward the end date for the Secretary of State’s decision making powers to take account of the fact that there will be a new assembly and a new devolved department from May 2016.

[The Temporary Chair (Sir Alan Meale)]

With this it will be convenient to discuss clause 3 stand part.

[Mark Durkan]

Amendment 4 stands in the names of my hon. Friends the Members for South Down (Ms Ritchie) and for Belfast South (Dr McDonnell) and I. It relates to the sunset provision. The Bill provides that the power that is to come to the Secretary of State, while apparently not leaving the Assembly, will last until the end of 2016. As my hon. Friend the Member for South Down has said, the Assembly will have a new mandate from next May. There could be new Ministers and possibly new departmental structures as well, if the fresh start programme and previous decisions from Stormont House are followed.

The excuse is being made about the exigencies of the requirement to move on welfare reform to break the supposed deadlock between welfare reform, the budget and the implementation of other measures. It is said that that all has to be done now. We might be told that there will be an Order in Council to transpose the 2012 Act’s provisions into Northern Ireland legislation first, and that there will be a subsequent Order in Council to deal with the current Welfare Reform and Work Bill’s provisions. There could also be supplementary regulations after that. There is no reason, however, for the powers to stay here until the end of 2016.

The shadow Secretary of State, the hon. Member for Gedling (Vernon Coaker), asked earlier why that date had been chosen. The most that the Minister could tell him was that it was what the parties had asked for. Two of the parties might have asked for it, but the rest of us did not, because we were not privy to the selection of that date. It therefore seems sensible to allow a newly created Department with its new Minister, and the Assembly with its new mandate, to take the full flush of powers that they should have, without anyone having to look over their shoulder to see what the Secretary of State is doing. It would be very good for that new Minister to be able to say that they will be exercising full responsibility and for the new committee in the new Assembly to have its full remit in terms of full legislative competence. That is why we have tabled a proposal to bring forward the date of the sunset clause.

We also seek to give people better assurance: if Ministers are assuring us that this is not intended to create direct rule for the long term or indefinitely, and that it is a temporary measure, we should make it even more definitely temporary. We should also make the timetable of that temporary arrangement more compatible with what is being provided on the Assembly’s own electoral cycle and calendar. That is the point of our proposal.