Corporation Tax (Northern Ireland) Bill

Mark Durkan Excerpts

Tuesday 27th January 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

I join fellow Northern Ireland Members in acknowledging not just the enthusiastic contribution from the right hon. Member for North Shropshire (Mr Paterson), but his long-standing role on this issue. I know that when he was Opposition spokesperson on Northern Ireland, he took a deep interest in the issues facing the community in different parts of the country, and he was particularly interested in helping those who were trying to develop the economy. I recognise that he had a particular sympathy with the case that was being made, but giving Northern Ireland the capacity to differentiate itself in respect of corporation tax was not getting much of a hearing from the then Government.

I recall chairing the Enterprise, Trade and Investment Committee in the Assembly during some of those years, and in that capacity I had meetings with David Varney, who had been asked to produce a report by the British Government. It was quite clear from my conversations with David Varney and when we collectively as an all-party Committee met him that he was picking up different sentiments from across the political parties, and certainly from the permanent Government. A particularly sceptical attitude was notable on the part of certain quarters in the civil service, who may or may not have been speaking for their Ministers. The strong suggestion was made that the case noisily being put collectively by the Northern Ireland parties via the business groups—I recall the late Sir George Quigley doing great work on this—was not being matched by what was being said in private. That is what the Government were saying.

That might have reflected some trepidation about the possible impacts of the change or the price that would have to be paid for making it, but it was always the case that a price would have to be paid when it came to corporation tax. I remember when the Business Alliance had its first meeting about corporation tax. I recently heard that that ball was thrown in by Peter Robinson when he was Finance Minister. This was back in late 2002, after the Assembly had been suspended, and it went into 2003. Some of us said then that the issue would come down to whether we were prepared not just to seek the devolution of corporation tax, but to pay the price for such devolution, and that we needed to prepare for that conversation. At that stage, some of the parties said no, as they did not think that was needed, so the issue was ducked.

To be honest, I do not think we shaped up enough to make the case as well as we might have done. That was not the first time that the issue of capacity in relation to corporation tax was raised because it came up in the negotiations leading to the Good Friday agreement. Some of us said that we wanted to build in capacity for fiscal discretion, particularly in relation to corporation tax and some other taxes that had an economic impact. That was certainly the SDLP’s position.

The right hon. Member for Torfaen (Paul Murphy) was chairing the detailed negotiations on strand 1, and that is often forgotten, when everybody else claims all sorts of credit for the peace process. He honestly reflected that he was under strictures from the Treasury not to encourage too much discussion on the issue, but he nevertheless facilitated and allowed it. It just so happened that there were not too many takers among the Northern Ireland parties for it at that time. Perhaps people did not believe that we would get an agreement at that stage. There were certainly not many takers. With the exception of the SDLP, which put forward arguments about corporation tax and other matters, and the Alliance party, which favoured the Scottish-style proposal of 3% on income tax, there were no other takers for according fiscal discretion to the Assembly. The argument and the case were made, but for whatever political reasons, people did not embrace them.

So the argument was put back on the table by the Business Alliance between late 2002 and early 2003, but it particularly came back into play with the restoration of devolution in 2007. To be honest, the question arises as to why more of a case for it was not made when the terms for restoring devolution were discussed. Some of us raised the issue again during all those negotiations in 2005, 2006 and 2007, but there were no takers or backers for it. Perhaps people needed the confidence of seeing a more settled phase of devolution before they could fully turn their minds to the issue.

Perhaps if we had achieved the devolution of corporation tax much earlier, we would have been much further down the road when it came to all the benefits it can offer. We are told that all this opportunity and prosperity can come on the back of this corporation tax differential, so would it not have been much better if we had done this years ago—at a time when we had a much healthier budget management situation for the devolved Executive?

[Mrs Villiers]

Given that the hon. Gentleman’s party holds the environment portfolio in the Executive, does he agree that one way to get the full benefit of corporation tax devolution is by making Northern Ireland more competitive by reforming the planning system? It would be good to see back on the agenda in the Assembly the amendments that were debated on the reform of judicial review and planning, because it seems that the system is getting in the way of some important and worthwhile infrastructure projects in Northern Ireland.

[Mark Durkan]

I think that is a very unfair criticism of previous Ministers of the Environment who presided over that very system for many years and who are here. Yes, we hold that portfolio at the moment and, yes, we have made significant moves and improvements. What we did not agree with was the attempt to abandon planning criteria on the basis of the say-so of the First Minister and the deputy First Minister by designating a particular area. We thought that would lead to controversy, and the resistance to it came not only from the SDLP Minister but from many stakeholders, including many economic representatives, who were very sceptical about this strange approach. There are straighter and better ways of improving the planning system in Northern Ireland and of making it more efficient and more effective.

Many people have raised the issue of Northern Ireland’s competitive position compared with the south of Ireland. We need to remember that the sort of factors at play in the south of Ireland’s very successful drive for inward investment and its successful growing of its indigenous companies to become increasingly global players—to be acquired and, indeed, to conduct acquisitions themselves—go beyond just the corporation tax regime. They include the very significant long-term investment in further and higher education—not just at university level, but at the level of the institutes of technology. Many people are going to graduate from the technical universities as well, and this has happened alongside heavy investment in infrastructure and a very responsive and better managed planning system to deal with the needs of companies. The planning system in the south might have been long and delayed for some infrastructure projects, but when it comes to industrial projects, it has moved with a fleet of foot, and Northern Ireland does not compare well with that.

Like others, I believe that corporation tax on its own is not a silver bullet, a magic bullet or any other type of bullet. We in Northern Ireland are not meant to like bullets nowadays, but we sometimes find ourselves talking about them in contexts such as this. The fact is that we need to consider other policy measures as well. The Executive will be put under some strain by the budget scenario that they will face over the next few years when it comes to the other drivers that will be needed to maximise the benefits of corporation tax in a way that would compare favourably with the success of the south.

Mine is a border constituency. The Foyle constituency contains the city of Derry, or Londonderry as some Members would be quicker to call it, and many people in the constituency work in businesses across the border. The right hon. Member for North Shropshire referred to investments in Letterkenny. Many of my constituents work there, and there is strong cross-border co-operation. Something that is good in Letterkenny is good for Derry, and something good in Derry is good for Letterkenny.

There are firms that are paying 12.5% in corporation tax, but that does not mean that we have full employment in Derry. Some Derry firms are in nearby Donegal, and firms there that are Derry-based and originated in Derry employ many Derry people. A peripheral border region will face other infrastructure challenges, and the corporation rate on its own will not deliver high employment.

We must ensure that the Bill does not create unnecessary complications or confusions for the firms that would benefit from it, or create reputational problems for the region and its governance. The Chairman of the Select Committee, the hon. Member for Tewkesbury (Mr Robertson), wanted to know whether some clauses would be taken on the Floor of the House during the Committee stage or whether the entire Bill would be dealt with upstairs, but, in any event, we shall need to go through all the detail. I agree with the hon. Member for Bury South (Mr Lewis) that the Bill requires the fullest and best possible scrutiny, so that we do not find ourselves surprised or confused by what may emerge later, whether it is the behaviour of businesses or the response from the Treasury or Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs. We may be confronted by patterns and practices that we did not anticipate, or that we assumed would be dealt with by measures in the Bill.

The Bill introduces not just the capacity to devolve corporation tax in the sense of allowing the Assembly to set a different headline rate, but a whole calculus in relation to the effects on the block grant. There is what could almost be called a new ecosystem of company definitions: for instance, the Bill defines Northern Ireland regional establishments, Northern Ireland small and medium-sized enterprises, and Northern Ireland rate activity. All that will clearly provide a field day for the accountants and others who will have to work their way through it and take companies through it, but we, as legislators, will have to be careful when dealing with those terms. We shall need to understand how they will operate in practice, and how they will be interpreted. We shall need to know how the relevant profits will be measured, not least the relevant intellectual property profits.

The Bill states that the Government—the Westminster Government—will retain full control of allowances and credits, and I can see the case for avoiding an arrangement whereby the regional Government would be responsible for both the headline rate and for allowances. The devolved Government might well be susceptible to particular pressures from particular sectors for specialised allowances. That could create more difficulties and confusion, and it could also create a risk of some regional disrepute. There is, rightly, an increasingly worldwide movement in favour of more transparency in respect of tax matters and the conduct of taxation. We in Northern Ireland are not in the business of trying to create twilight zones in relation to tax adherence, and we recognise the need for a proper balance.

Today a Tax Dodging Bill campaign is being launched by a very active alliance that includes Action Aid, Christian Aid and Oxfam. The aim is to broaden efforts to create greater transparency in respect of corporate taxation, to establish new standards, and to bring about the introduction of a Bill in the next Parliament. I support the campaign, and was involved in many of the preliminaries. I must make it clear that there is no tension or contradiction between supporting the principles of that campaign and supporting Northern Ireland’s capacity to set its own differential rate of corporation tax.

Other Members have talked of the need to balance the economy, Growing our indigenous private sector while also attracting more inward investment and investment from industries that can partner our local companies is hugely important, and the corporation tax measures can open some windows for us in that regard. However, it is not just a question of rebalancing the economy; we must rebalance the region. The west of Northern Ireland—not least my own constituency—is clearly lagging behind in terms of both infrastructure and employment. We must ensure that, we well as the corporation tax rate, we have other instruments that have been properly developed. We need infrastructure investment to underpin shared growth across the region, and we also need significant advances into tertiary education.

People refer to corporation tax as a game-changer, but most people and businesses in my constituency are clear about the fact that the single biggest game-changer for us would be an expansion in higher education. That is not just needed to enhance the university status of the city of Derry; it is needed in Northern Ireland, which is, in effect, exporting a university campus every year. Given what is happening in the south of Ireland, the north will lose out very badly if it decides that corporation tax is the only thing on which it wishes to compete with the south. We are not competing with the south, or indeed this country, on further and higher education.

However, we also need to recognise this is not just about competing with the south. There has been almost an obsession with Northern Ireland’s competition with the south in relation to corporation tax. We need to recognise that the game is changing when it comes to competition in cities and city regions. Important things are happening on this island. For instance, enterprise zones have developed and taken on a different life. As we have heard from the Opposition, it is not a question of “Life on Mars”, or a return to the 1980s. Enterprise zones have had different effects in different areas, and some have been more vibrant than others. More and more Opposition Members want them in their constituencies, along with city deals and growth deals.

Cities and other locations in Northern Ireland are not just competing in economic terms with parts of the south, but with places on this island as well. Alongside the latitude on corporation tax, I should like the Executive to pursue the idea of creating their own version of city deals, and recruiting support from the Treasury and any other support that is needed from Whitehall. That is what happened in Scotland in connection with the city deal for Glasgow. Therefore we could, and should, be developing more tools, rather than leaving everything to corporation tax alone.

The hon. Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson) and others raised issues to do with the financial sector, and I think it is right that there are limitations and qualifications there. People would have been very sceptical if a corporation tax measure for Northern Ireland had meant that the banks were freely able to move their brass plates or some of their offices purely to avail themselves of lower corporation tax. I do not think people in Northern Ireland would want that, and certainly people elsewhere would not want it. Would it happen? Well, we suddenly saw at one point during the Scottish referendum campaign that banks were saying they might move, depending on the result. That would have been the first bank run in history in which the banks were going to move yet the money was going to stay, but that was what was being talked about, so there is reason to believe that might happen.

We will have to tease out in Committee or at another time some of the questions around the financial sector and other sectors in terms of the interpretations and implications of what does or does not count as a back office. Similarly, questions have been raised around what we have been told about the calibration that will be done in relation to allowances and credits, so that, for instance, the film industry and other creative industries may be told that there will be a clawback of some of their other allowances and credits if they are in Northern Ireland, to take account of the benefit they are getting in terms of corporation tax. We need to tease out whether people actually have to have those benefits and receive them before the clawback will take place, or whether they will be told that on paper they could benefit from that as they are in a different corporation tax environment and that therefore they are in a different environment as far as the allowances and credits are concerned. So the question of when some of these things are triggered or kick in is important.

There are similar issues in relation to the impact on the block grant. If we are going to start with assumptions being made as to the opportunity cost in revenue terms of the lower rate of corporation tax for Northern Ireland, this issue arises: once we know what it actually is, will adjustments be made year on year to the block grant, so that if less is forgone in one year than was anticipated, that will be made up in next year’s block grant? Similarly, will more come out of the block grant if there is deemed to have been more uptake in relation to the corporation tax differential? We need to tease out more detail.

The credit union movement is very dear to many people in my constituency. The credit unions are strong in my constituency. They pay corporation tax and they would like to think that they will not be counted as benefiting from the lower rate, because they are rooted in the community and exist totally for, and are dedicated to, the community, so they will not be salting away profits in an egregious way. They will not be abusing the system, and they want assurances that they can be protected and that they will not be treated in the same way as the banks in terms of the protection against any possible undue benefits going to the financial sector.

On procedure, the hon. Member for Tewkesbury (Mr Robertson) has made the point that he would like this Bill to be taken on the Floor of the House. I believe it could be, and certainly significant clauses could be taken on the Floor of the House, so that if and when issues arise in a few years’ time, none of us has the excuse of saying that we did not know and we were not in on that. I am not afraid of the questions that arise from the Scottish position, the Welsh position or anything else, so I do not agree with those who say we should just take this away in secret Upstairs, and that we cannot afford to answer any questions that might arise. I think we can address those questions.

It is my belief that, as this plays out, Northern Ireland will end up with lower rates of corporation tax but probably not for long, because I think a deal will be done in future that sees corporation tax devolved in some form or other to Scotland, and I think that on the back of that there will be strong pressure to say that the corporation tax rate in England must come down further. The Government who have produced this Bill are a Government who have reduced corporation tax throughout this Parliament, as the Secretary of State said in her opening remarks, and I cannot believe that they will not be committed to trying to reduce corporation tax if they are in government in any future Parliament—and of course they would use the lower rate of corporation tax in Northern Ireland and Scotland to drive that measure and catch the Opposition in the same way as they think they caught the Opposition today.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Gauke]

The sense of direction in increasing corporation tax would be a mistake. I will not detain the House for long on this matter, but I also note that Labour’s pledge is to have the lowest corporation tax rate in the G7, which would allow it to increase corporation tax to 26%. That would be a major reversal of the progress made by this Government. However, I am sure you would like me to return to the issue of Northern Ireland, Madam Deputy Speaker.

Let me add my tribute to those that have made to my right hon. Friend the Member for North Shropshire (Mr Paterson). Having worked with him in opposition and in government on this policy, I can testify to the vision, tenacity and infectious enthusiasm he has shown. He demonstrates, as does this Bill, what can be achieved by a Minister with his determination and vision, and he deserves much of the credit for the progress that has been made. He also rightly paid tribute to the current Secretary of State, who has demonstrated great skill in making progress on this matter. He put a lot of the momentum into the process, but it has also required her talents to bring us to this point.

The hon. Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson) made an excellent speech about the history of this progress. He and I have had many conversations and meetings on this matter. He described the progress by saying that we would go forward a bit and then back a bit, and that at times it was frustrating. I can tell him that I shared that experience, but he made a good case for the progress we have made. He also made an important point about the Republic of Ireland’s resistance to raising corporation tax at times when it faced great financial difficulties. That point was also made by my hon. Friend the Member for Tewkesbury (Mr Robertson), the Chair of the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee, who described how important it was to the Republic of Ireland to maintain low rates of corporation tax and to grow the private sector.

My hon. Friend made a couple of other points that I wish to address. He mentioned timing and said it would take a couple of years before this measure comes into effect. As has been said by a number of hon. Members, it is important that we set a sense of direction so that businesses can see where things are going in future years, but it takes some time to implement a change of this sort. Therefore, the 2017 timetable is as fast as is realistic. He also asked whether we should have the Committee stage on the Floor of the House or upstairs. That is largely a matter for the usual channels, but given that we want to make progress as quickly as possible and that a limited amount of time is left in this Parliament, it is right that we take every opportunity to make progress on this as quickly as we can. The fastest and easiest way of doing that is by holding the Committee stage, which will involve detailed scrutiny of some 87 pages of legislation, upstairs.

The hon. Member for Foyle (Mark Durkan) rightly made the point, as did a number of other hon. Members, that other issues will drive growth and this measure should not been seen as a silver bullet. He also said we should not create a new twilight zone where businesses and individuals can play the tax system to their benefit, and I will deal with that briefly in a moment. My hon. Friend the Member for Redcar (Ian Swales) made similar points about tax avoidance and also mentioned the impact of this measure on the UK more widely, and I will deal with that in a moment also.

The hon. Member for Belfast East (Naomi Long) made an excellent speech. A couple of points worth highlighting are the need for Northern Ireland to get its financial house in order and to have sustainable public finances, something that is well recognised, and the fact that political stability is important for providing the environment for economic growth in Northern Ireland. I agree with her on that.

My hon. Friend the Member for Amber Valley (Nigel Mills) brought his technical expertise to this debate. He raised a number of points that are probably best addressed in Committee. I do not know whether he was making an application to serve on that Committee, but he certainly raised a number of important points.

The hon. Member for Upper Bann (David Simpson) talked about grasping the opportunity to help economic growth in Northern Ireland. The hon. Member for South Down (Ms Ritchie) made a similar point. She also highlighted other matters, and talked about how to help the Northern Ireland economy. She asked about our engagement with the Northern Ireland Executive. I can assure her that, over the course of many years, there has been significant engagement, that the Northern Ireland Executive have been involved in discussions on the joint ministerial working group and the subsequent design process, and that we have kept the Northern Ireland Executive informed of progress in the design of legislation and taken their views into account when agreeing the final design. There have also been regular discussions at official level between the Executive, Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs and the Treasury. I am grateful to the Executive for their co-operative approach at ministerial and official level, and that engagement is continuing.

To conclude the debate, the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) also highlighted additional challenges that Northern Ireland faces, including improving the planning system and ensuring that the skills base and education system is working for Northern Ireland, and all of those were good points.

Let me pick up on a few of the issues to emerge from the debate. The most significant point, which was raised on a number of occasions, was ensuring that this is about real economic activity. This is not about profit shifting or a brass plate. I can assure the House that we very much share that view. This is not about finding a way in which companies can reduce their tax base through contrived or artificial arrangements, but about encouraging jobs and growth in Northern Ireland. We will ensure that HMRC has the capacity to deal with these matters. For example, when dealing with transfer pricing matters, HMRC will have a risk-based approach to ensure that the system works, so that we do not see the type of activity that so concerns Members.

[Mark Durkan]

On the subject of HMRC capacity, I know the Minister is talking mainly about its powers and where it is sited, but has any thought been given to the regional capacity that it will need in relation to these new discrete considerations that will apply in Northern Ireland, because that might lead to a revision of HMRC’s projection for its staff needs in Northern Ireland?

[Mr Gauke]

The important issue here—it was also a point raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Redcar—is ensuring that there is the capacity to deal with the transfer pricing issues. Transfer pricing is a highly skilled and specialised discipline within HMRC. It is important that the transfer pricing team has the capacity to deal with those matters. That is best done on a centralised basis rather than having people dispersed around the United Kingdom. The hon. Gentleman and I have had many conversations over a number of years on the issue of HMRC’s presence in Northern Ireland. Let me stress that this is a matter of ensuring that we have the right skills, that the customer relationship managers work closely with businesses and that there is a good understanding of how this differential rate will work and be applied.

It is worth pointing out that it will not be possible for companies to set up a brass plate to benefit from a lower rate in Northern Ireland. The rules require a permanent physical presence in Northern Ireland and, more fundamentally, a calculation of Northern Ireland’s trading profits based on the profits that the Northern Ireland activity would have made as a stand-alone entity. That separate enterprise approach coupled with the exclusion of investment profits from the Northern Ireland regime should ensure that common international tax avoidance arrangements cannot be replicated within the Northern Ireland regime. As a Government we have a proud record of progressing the international debate on the issue, and we are not going to allow an opportunity for abuse in our system.

On the block grant adjustment, the Stormont House agreement sets out that the block grant will be reduced to reflect the tax revenues forgone by the UK Government as a result of devolving tax powers. We will continue to work with the Northern Ireland Executive on the detailed mechanics to ensure that the Northern Ireland block grant is reduced appropriately. The reduction will depend on the rate that is set by the Northern Ireland Executive. To answer a point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Redcar, there are no particular restrictions on that. Conceivably, it could be a 0% rate, but that would have to be paid for and it would be expensive. An estimate of the cost to the Northern Ireland Executive of a 12.5% rate is in the region of £300 million by 2019-20, which is when the steady state will be in place. That will depend on a number of factors, not least the growth of the economy.

I am conscious of time and the fact that there is another debate to be had, but let me conclude by saying that there is a strong case for action in this area. The Northern Ireland economy is significantly more dependent on the public sector than the rest of the UK, with about 30% of workers employed there, compared with about 20% in the rest of the UK. The Northern Ireland corporation tax rate of 21% has to compete with the rate in the Republic of Ireland of 12.5%. If corporation tax is lowered in Northern Ireland, about 34,000 businesses in Northern Ireland stand to benefit, including 26,500 small and medium-sized enterprises.

The Northern Ireland Executive will have greater power to rebalance the economy towards a stronger private sector, boosting employment and growth. Northern Ireland will attract more investment and become more competitive, boosting the entire UK economy and the standard of living of people across Northern Ireland. The Bill is conditional on the Northern Ireland Executive continuing to work to balance Northern Ireland’s budget to ensure that people across the UK can benefit from the stronger economy and fairer society that this Government have been building. I hope that the House will give the Bill a Second Reading, and that we have the support of the whole House.

Question put and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read a second time.

Corporation Tax (Northern Ireland) Bill (Programme)

Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 83A(7)),

That the following provisions shall apply to the Corporation Tax (Northern Ireland) Bill:

Committal

(1) The Bill shall be committed to a Public Bill Committee.

Proceedings in Public Bill Committee

(2) Proceedings in the Public Bill Committee shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion on Thursday 12 February 2015.

(3) The Public Bill Committee shall have leave to sit twice on the first day on which it meets.

Consideration and Third Reading

(4) Proceedings on Consideration shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion one hour before the moment of interruption on the day on which those proceedings are commenced.

(5) Proceedings on Third Reading shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion at the moment of interruption on that day.

(6) Standing Order No. 83B (Programming committees) shall not apply to proceedings on Consideration and Third Reading.

Other proceedings

(7) Any other proceedings on the Bill (including any proceedings on consideration of any message from the Lords) may be programmed. —(Dr Thérèse Coffey.)

Question agreed to.

Corporation Tax (Northern Ireland) Bill (Ways and Means)

Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 52(1)(a)),

That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Corporation Tax (Northern Ireland) Bill, it is expedient to authorise:

(1) any increase in charges to corporation tax by virtue of a resolution made by the Northern Ireland Assembly setting the Northern Ireland rate of corporation tax, and

(2) any increase in charges to corporation tax by virtue of the Act. —(Dr Thérèse Coffey.)

Question agreed to.