NHS PPE Supply Chains: Forced Labour

Debate between Maria Caulfield and Christina Rees

Thursday 14th July 2022 Westminster Hall

[Maria Caulfield]

I am very happy to do that. While I have been able to highlight what the NHS is doing, some good cross-departmental work is also being done on procurement and on identifying where slavery is happening both globally and domestically. I highlighted the evidence from Mo Farah this week. We must not take it for granted that slavery is not happening in this country. I am happy to write to the shadow Minister and those who have taken part in the debate to highlight the work that is happening across the Government. It has to be a cross-Government initiative to make sure that we are all working together to root this out. Much remains to be done to ensure that we deliver the message that modern day slavery is completely unacceptable. I look forward to working with MPs across the House to make sure that we all do our bit.

[Christina Rees (in the Chair)]

Jim Shannon, would you like a couple of minutes to wind up?

Surgical Fires in the NHS

Debate between Maria Caulfield and Christina Rees

Thursday 16th December 2021 Westminster Hall

[Maria Caulfield]

That is certainly an area that we can discuss further when we meet. I am very happy to do that. The hon. Gentleman is right that experts in this field are best placed to consider whether we have the right standards in place. Work is ongoing to ensure that the standards in place are the correct approach to minimise the risk of surgical fires happening in the first place and to advise the NHS on the issue.

The hon. Member for Strangford talked about the fire triangle of ignition, heat and oxygen. There are potential risk factors in all three of those areas that can make a fire more likely. As I said at the beginning of my remarks, we are working on learning lessons about where fires have happened, to make sure that we learn from those experiences.

In terms of the data, I am obviously concerned that there is no central record of how many surgical fires are taking place, but a new learn from patient safety events service is coming in next year and will better record patient safety events, improve data collection and help NHS trusts to collect the data, use it and learn from it. Although that is not specific to surgical fires, I am keen that fires in general, including surgical fires, are reduced as much as possible and that we learn from these events when they happen.

I am also keen that staff training is a priority. There is a legal duty on NHS trusts to ensure that their staff are trained in fire safety when first employed but also on an ongoing basis. Very often, particularly in theatre, new equipment comes in. The hon. Member for Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill (Steven Bonnar) talked about lasers and diathermy equipment. As those machines and that equipment are introduced and upgraded, it is important that staff are trained properly and are able to flag faults with the equipment and ensure that action is taken quickly, for a whole host of reasons. A theatre is a very risky place not just in terms of fire but for a number of reasons.

All colleagues touched on never events. By its very nature, a never event is something that should never happen, but there are not many classified never events if we look on the list. In theatre, there is a never event on swabs used in theatre procedures. We have very clear guidance and procedures in place when swabs are used—they are counted in and counted out to absolutely make sure that nothing is left behind after an operation. That is key.

Surgical fires are not a never event at the moment because there are no clear guidelines that staff can follow that can absolutely rule out any particular fire from happening. That is the crux of the matter. Fires should absolutely be preventable and we should learn the lessons when a surgical fire takes place, but we do not have the guidelines to be able to say to staff what has to be followed to absolutely prevent a fire from happening in the first place. When I meet the hon. Member for Strangford, we need to look at the guidelines and make sure they are coming forward. I have been informed by NHS England that it cannot classify surgical fires as a never event at the moment, until the national guidance or safety recommendations are in place. It has also confirmed that it always reviews any new guidance when it is published. That is the nub of the issue.

The shadow Minister touched on the Whipps Cross hospital renovation. Sadly, that is not in my portfolio, but it does come in the portfolio of the Minister for Health, the hon. Member for Charnwood (Edward Argar), so I will speak to him to try to get an update on progress.

In conclusion, I want to reassure the House that patient safety remains a top priority for the Government. The risk of surgical fire is a real issue, and surgical fires do put patients and staff at risk. The issue is taken very seriously by the Department, and work continues in this field to ensure that the correct guidance is there to minimise the risk of surgical fires occurring in the first place. I look forward to, hopefully, sharing some progress with Members in the new year.

I thank all Members and staff for their hard work this year. It has been a very tough year for everyone, so hopefully everyone will get to enjoy their Christmas. Like the shadow Minister, I also thank all the staff at the Department of Health and Social Care and across the NHS, who may be having a very tough Christmas this year, and I place on record our thanks and gratitude to them—their hard work has not gone unnoticed. With that, I thank everyone, and especially the hon. Member for Strangford for securing the debate.

[Christina Rees (in the Chair)]

Thank you for your remarks, Minister—they are much appreciated.