DRAFT National Minimum Wage (Amendment) REGULATIONS 2017

Debate between Margot James and Peter Kyle

Tuesday 14th March 2017 General Committees

[Margot James]

First, I congratulate the hon. Member for Birmingham, Erdington on all the work that he undertook to advance the concept of a national living wage, which he outlined at the beginning of his remarks. I agree with several points he made. There is more than a moral case for a living wage; it is indeed good for employers and the economy—especially local economies.

The hon. Gentleman kindly exempted me from the record of my party, which he alleged had always been against the introduction of the national minimum wage, but I gently remind him that I am not alone on the Government side of the House in being a keen supporter of a national minimum wage. We are comfortable that the Conservative party has changed in its roots. I can remember the 1990s and he is quite right that people just thought, “Well, if you have a national minimum wage, it’ll cost jobs”, and no more argument was brooked. People were wrong about that.

I turn now to the difference between what I think the hon. Gentleman was arguing for, which was a living wage more along the lines advocated by the Living Wage Foundation, and the national living wage that we have put into law. Of course, I want to see people on that sort of pay being paid more, but we have set the rate as it is, which is lower than the Living Wage Foundation supports, because we are very concerned that it does not cost jobs. [Laughter.] Hon. Members are laughing, but the living wage is set by the Government on the advice of the independent Low Pay Commission. The commission is tasked with assessing the rates of the national living wage and the national minimum wage against the performance of the economy overall, and gives its considered view about the impact of those wage rates on employment. That is why I think that setting the rates at the levels we do is justified.

My hon. Friend the Member for York Outer was quite right to make the point he did. As I have said, I have spoken to small businesses, particularly retailers, and some of them are really up against it in terms of costs, and if we were suddenly to override the advice of the Low Pay Commission and whack the minimum wage up to £10 an hour, I seriously think that a lot of people would lose their jobs.

[Peter Kyle (Hove) (Lab)]

rose—

--- Later in debate ---

[Margot James]

I will make some progress, because I want to respond to some of the points that the hon. Member for Airdrie and Shotts made. He was concerned about the rates for the under-25s, apart from the apprenticeship rates, which have gone up significantly. Again, the Government take the advice of the Low Pay Commission.

The issue that the hon. Gentleman did not mention is the rate of unemployment among younger people, which is significantly greater than it is among the over-25s. That is really the reason that the Low Pay Commission advises that there should be a lower rate for younger people, because it recognises that younger people need to get experience in order to command the higher rates and indeed to command a job in the first place, with the obvious exception of the hon. Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire South.

I remind Members that the unemployment rate for people aged between 16 and 24 is 12.6%. That is hugely greater than the unemployment rate for the over-25s, which is 3.6%. That is why the Low Pay Commission recommends a difference in the rates.

[Peter Kyle]

My hon. Friend the Member for Walthamstow made the point about young people—actually, people of all ages—struggling to get on to the housing ladder and being able to buy property. Does the Minister accept that our economy is stacked in favour of people who have assets and that people who are talent-rich but asset-poor really struggle to get on? That is why it is so important that we have more ambition for the minimum wage, so that everybody has access to the assets that will get them all the benefits that modern 21st-century life has to offer.

[Margot James]

The hon. Gentleman makes the point very well indeed. That is why we are trying as a Government to build a more inclusive society, in order to ensure that, as he says, people who are talent-rich but asset-poor get a fairer start in life. That is also why we are investing hugely in skills and infrastructure to try to bring better-paid jobs to all. It is not just about the minimum wage; it is also about the architecture of the economy surrounding people for whom there are few opportunities at the moment or opportunities just for low-paid work.

To correct the impression given by the hon. Member for Airdrie and Shotts in his remarks, real wages have grown every month for more than two years now. The average rate of growth across the economy of real wages was 2.6% over the last 12 months.