Draft Packaging Waste (Data Reporting) (England) Regulations 2023

Debate between Margaret Greenwood and Ruth Jones

Thursday 2nd February 2023 General Committees

[Ruth Jones (Newport West) (Lab)]

It is a real pleasure to see you in the Chair this morning, Mr Sharma.

I am sure that colleagues will be pleased to know that we will not be opposing the draft regulations; none the less, I have a number of important points to make. First, I thank colleagues in the sector, notably Ruth Chambers from the Greener Alliance, for sharing their thoughts and expertise.

This draft statutory instrument brings in reporting requirements for packaging waste in anticipation of the Government introducing a new system of extended producer responsibility. In other words, packaging producers will be expected to pay for the full waste management costs of the material that they place on the market. We support that aim, but as ever with this Government, the devil is in the detail.

It will come as no surprise to the Committee that the new system has been repeatedly delayed and is now not expected to begin its phased introduction until 2024—possibly at the earliest. It replaces a system relying on packaging recovery notes established back in 1997, which has long been widely regarded as not fit for purpose because producers typically pay for only 10% of packaging recycling and waste management costs, with the public—our constituents—covering the rest. Yes, it is important that a more robust system is introduced and introduced properly, but it is so important that we must take a moment—a small moment, Mr Sharma—to touch on the serious shortcomings in the proposed legislation.

This draft SI sets out that only producers that have an annual turnover of more than £2 million and put more than 50 tonnes of packaging on to the market will be subject to the full reporting and payment requirements. In addition, the SI brings in new requirements for smaller businesses, including producers with an annual turnover of more than £1 million that place more than 25 tonnes of packaging on to the market; they will be required to report data, but not obligated to pay EPR fees. Those that meet neither threshold will remain unobligated to collect or report data for the packaging they produce; nor will they be liable to pay for its management. How will that help to introduce a scheme that is fit for purpose and that can tackle the waste crisis?

The higher threshold resulting in full obligations is the same as in the current, flawed PRN system, which is a higher threshold than any producer responsibility scheme in Europe. The Government have not adequately justified the retention of the same full de minimis threshold, or their introduction of limited reporting requirements for those putting 25 tonnes of packaging on the market. Will the Minister explain that, in simple layman’s terms?

I note that the analysis suggests that about 1,800 more businesses will now face reporting obligations, but does the Minister have a precise number of the businesses affected? The Minister’s own impact assessment suggests that the number could be as high as 15,000, or as low as zero. What is the figure, and what will she do to ensure that the legislation means something?

[Margaret Greenwood]

My hon. Friend is making an excellent speech. Does she agree that there would have been room in the draft instrument for the Government to make stronger provision to ensure that effective action is taken immediately, in an effort to combat the waste crisis?

[Ruth Jones]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We do not want dither and delay; we want to get on with this. We support the aims, but we are not sure about the method. The right hon. Member for North West Cambridgeshire expressed the concerns that smaller businesses have about the new scheme; they need clarity.

To ensure that all material is covered by the new system, has the Minister considered eliminating the threshold entirely, as is common in many packaging systems in Europe, or lowering it to 1 tonne, as was recommended by the Select Committee on Environment, Food and Rural Affairs? The Government might with more justification lower the threshold to 10 tonnes, to correspond to the requirements of their own plastics packaging tax, which has just come into effect. This prompts a question about Ministers doing something with one hand and something very different with the other, which confuses people. Choosing to retain a full de minimis threshold that is more than five times as high, and a new limited de minimis threshold that is more than twice as high, as the threshold for another Government policy on packaging seems inconsistent, to say the least.

The shortcomings mean that the new system, like the previous one, will have to deal with uncertainty about the amount of material that is actually placed on the market, and therefore uncertainty about the real recycling rate for such materials, given that recycling rates are likely to be lower than reported if material placed on the market is not captured in the data. We should be ambitious as we seek to protect our planet and preserve our environment, but as ever with this Government, there is more dither and delay.

I gently remind the Minister that, back in 2018, the National Audit Office launched a report that criticised the packaging producer responsibility system for lacking “robust data”. Data is key, but this interim SI indicates a peculiar approach to legislation that is piecemeal rather than wholesale. Given the retention of the same threshold for reporting requirements in the proposals, it is likely that the new system will be similarly and unnecessarily flawed. Will the Minister comment on that?

In setting up this new system to hold producers responsible for the waste they create, the Government must be careful not to repeat the mistakes of the previous system. I have two final questions. First, will the Minister take all necessary steps to ensure that all packaging is properly accounted for? Secondly, can the Minister be clear that the new system will improve the quality of data compared with the one it is replacing? Without clarity or understanding of our actions, the draft SI will be what we have become used to: more of the same dither and delay.

Draft United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020 (Exclusions from Market Access Principles: Single-use Plastics) Regulations 2022

Debate between Margaret Greenwood and Ruth Jones

Thursday 14th July 2022 General Committees

[Ruth Jones (Newport West) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Murray—I think for the first time—and it is good to see you in the Chair. I am grateful for the opportunity to speak, and I say to the Minister that I am very glad to see that someone turned up today. When we were notified last week that legislation was being considered by the House, we were concerned that we would be Minister-less, but our fears have thankfully been abated, because the people’s business must go on despite the caretaker Government and outgoing Prime Minister.

I welcome the Minister to his new caretaker position in the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. I gently say that, with the clock ticking, his time in the post may be more about quality than quantity, but that is okay. I want to be helpful—that is how I approach every day—so I urge the Minister to use the days and weeks that he has in his role to be bold, to be strong and to work with Opposition Members to protect our environment and preserve our planet, because we stand ready to serve.

Before I go into the body of the SI, I place on record my genuine thanks to the hon. Members for Bury St Edmunds (Jo Churchill) and for Taunton Deane (Rebecca Pow) after their resignations from the Government last week. We did not always agree, but we developed a respectful working relationship, and we more than once joked that we saw more of each other than we did of our spouses, children and loved ones due to the constant flow of DEFRA-related business before the House. However, I am sure that the next Prime Minister will speedily return them both to Government positions between now and the imminent general election.

Today, we consider the draft United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020 (Exclusions from Market Access Principles: Single-use Plastics) Regulations 2022. I have spoken to a range of stakeholders in advance of this sitting, and I particularly thank Sarah Williams and the indefatigable Ruth Chambers of the Green Alliance for their continuing campaign work. As we consider the SI, it is important to understand the background. In our exchange, Sarah noted that a major concern of the 2020 Act was that individual Governments would be disincentivised from improving standards. The mutual recognition principle in the United Kingdom Internal Market Act means that goods that have been produced in, or imported into, one part of the UK must be able to be sold to any other part of the UK, regardless of any restrictions that apply in that part. That risks rendering any new environmental requirements for goods ineffective, and creating a chilling effect on their creation in the first place.

In another case of being late to the party, the Government did agree that a specific divergence from the operation of the market access principles could be agreed through the common frameworks process where all parties are in agreement, and so we find ourselves here today for the first time. Labour will not oppose the legislation today, but we will continue to be a critical friend and look at how we can make sure Ministers are as bold and effective as possible. That is the only way we will make progress in the battle to protect our environment and clean up our planet.

As the explanatory note published with the legislation helpfully highlighted, the regulations before us

“amend Schedule 1 to the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020…to insert a further exclusion from the market access principles in Part 1 of the 2020 Act, in respect of certain specified single-use plastic items.”

As the Minister said, these items are

“straws, plastic stemmed cotton buds, drink stirrers, plates, cutlery and chopsticks, balloon sticks, and expanded or extruded polystyrene food and drink containers and cups. In consequence of the amendment, the market access principles will not apply to, or affect the operation of, any legislation so far as it prohibits the sale of the specified items in any part of the United Kingdom.”

I acknowledge the work that the Welsh Labour Government have done on tackling plastic waste. Under Welsh Labour, Wales introduced a fully comprehensive charge on single-use bags back in 2010, and it took another five years before the UK Government introduced a half-measure ban applying only to larger retailers. The Welsh Labour Government are also committed to introducing legislation to ban the supply of said articles, and I note the UK Government have consulted on proposals to ban the supply of single-use plastic plates, balloon sticks and expanded or extruded polystyrene food and drink containers, including cups, in England in 2023. Will the Minister update hon. Members on that consultation and say how many people have responded to it?

The Northern Ireland protocol requires the supply of single-use plastic plates, cutlery, balloon sticks, drink stirrers, cotton bud sticks and expanded polystyrene food and drink containers, including cups, to be banned. Will that be affected by the promises made by many candidates for the Tory party leadership? Will it be on the table when they seek to renegotiate the protocol, as could happen? I would hope not, but I have come to realise that anything is possible at the moment, which is why I ask that question today.

Yesterday, Greenpeace launched its report “The Big Plastic Count Results”. Can the Minister confirm that he has read that report? Will he be meeting Greenpeace to discuss it? The need to act on plastics is obvious to us all; we will support Ministers when they act and hold them to account when they fail to get themselves into gear.

I note that the resources and waste common framework is still referred to as “provisional”. Will the Minister give us a progress check on when it will be permanent? Will he outline what engagement he has had with small and medium-sized businesses across the UK to ensure that they have the support they need to implement the changes? What discussions has he had with colleagues across Government to make sure the funding and support for providing reusable items is there and accessible to businesses and customers?

The resources and waste strategy set out a plan for resource sufficiency and a circular economy, which included an ambition for all plastics to be biodegradable. What steps does the Minister plan to take to remove from circulation plastics that are not biodegradable?

As the Member for Newport West, I am naturally very interested in and totally committed to ensuring that the voices of all the nations of our United Kingdom are part of what we do here and how we do it.

[Margaret Greenwood (Wirral West) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend is making a really good speech. I have been impressed by the enthusiasm of schoolchildren in my constituency of Wirral West, where they are learning about plastic pollution and the importance of looking after the environment. I pay tribute to all their teachers for giving them such inspirational education. The children are going home and educating their parents, which is absolutely what needs to happen because it is the children’s future more than any of ours. Does my hon. Friend agree that education on plastics pollution is incredibly important for the future of our planet?

[Ruth Jones]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right; it is all about the children educating the parents. Pester-power is so important. Although my own children are older, they definitely pester and ask the question, “What are you doing to save the planet, Mum?”, which is why I ask the Minister the same question.

The Minister stated that consent was sought from Scotland and Wales. Will he give us an idea of what those discussions touched on? Did they extend to the wider fight against plastics? I was concerned that consent from the Department for the Economy in Northern Ireland was not provided in the timeline set out. That highlights the impact of the lack of any functioning devolved Government in Northern Ireland. We need an Executive in Stormont, and we need one now. I urge Ministers to redouble their efforts to get all the parties around the table, because the people of Northern Ireland deserve to have their views, thoughts and needs factored into what happens on plastics, waste and recycling.

I note that no full impact assessment has been produced for this instrument because, as the Minister said, in his view no significant impact on the private, voluntary or public sectors is foreseen. However, we cannot take the view that there is no impact without making an assessment. It is a bit of a chicken and egg situation: how can we know the impact if an assessment has not been done first?

In many ways, this legislation is a formality and brings things in order, so we will not be pressing for a vote today. That said, I am pleased to have had the opportunity to raise several issues and to pose questions to the new Minister on the impact of the tidying up, this Government’s approach to plastics and plastic usage, and the need to do all we can to protect and preserve our planet.