For Women Scotland Ltd v Scottish Ministers Debate
Full Debate: Read Full DebateBaroness Brown of Silvertown
Main Page: Baroness Brown of Silvertown (Labour - Life peer)Department Debates - View all Baroness Brown of Silvertown's debates with the Department for Work and Pensions
(1 month, 3 weeks ago)
Lords Chamber
Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)
This Government have always protected the right of women to have single-sex spaces. They always have; some of us have quite a long history of doing it and we will continue to do that.
My Lords, the code, read alongside the building regulations, creates conditions in which anyone may feel entitled to challenge anyone in a single-sex facility whose appearance does not satisfy them. Can the Minister point to any evidence that trans people in public toilets represent a significant risk to others, and does she accept that the more likely consequence of this framework is the harassment of gender non-conforming women who are not trans at all?
Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)
I hope when my noble friend has a chance to look at the code in detail she will recognise that the code now makes it clear that determining somebody’s sex on the basis of their physical appearance would not necessarily be straightforward or appropriate. I think that is an important statement. On the point about challenging and enforcement, most of us in this country for many years have lived in a way that enables people to access public services, including toilets, without any policing. That is not the British way we do things—nor do I think it should be in future. There are common-sense ways in which the code identifies how we can ensure both that the ruling is complied with and that all people—particularly trans people who may be worried about it—can get access to the facilities they need and deserve.