Energy Bill

Debate between Luciana Berger and Caroline Lucas

Tuesday 4th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Caroline Lucas]

I certainly support the amendment, but I wonder why the hon. Lady limited the threshold to 10 MW. The Energy and Climate Change Committee talked of 50 MW, and many non-governmental organisations have talked of more than 10. I think it would be useful to convey the idea that “community” means more than just “small”.

[Luciana Berger]

If the hon. Lady looks at the amendment, she will see that it refers to

“not less than 10 megawatts.”

It does not limit the threshold to that level.

I listened carefully to what the Minister said about his commitment to “active consideration”, a phrase that he used many times. He used the same phrase when we discussed a similar amendment in Committee four months ago. If the Government really want to deliver the community energy revolution to which the Secretary of State has referred, actions must speak louder than words. The hon. Member for Edinburgh West (Mike Crockart) expressed his support for community energy, and I hope that he will join us in the Lobby to support amendment 1. Unfortunately, the hon. Member for Beckenham (Bob Stewart) is no longer in the Chamber, but I noted his aspirations for community-generated energy in Bromley, and I hope that he, too, will join us in the Lobby.

I urge Ministers to support our amendment, and I urge the House to divide on the issue if they will not do so.

--- Later in debate ---

[Caroline Lucas]

rose—

[Luciana Berger]

rose—

Energy Suppliers and Prices

Debate between Luciana Berger and Caroline Lucas

Tuesday 28th February 2012 Westminster Hall

[Caroline Lucas]

I certainly agree with that. That is much of the motivation for securing the debate this morning.

[Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op)]

I thank the hon. Lady for giving way in a short debate. I know that she shares my concern that the average household now spends £1,345 on its dual fuel bill and that profits last year were on average £125 per household, which is why this issue urgently needs attention. I listened carefully to what she said about competition. Does she agree that one of the key things that we need to do to reform the energy market is to encourage and ensure that the big six pool their energy, so that we can increase competition and allow more entrants into the market?

[Caroline Lucas]

I absolutely agree with the hon. Lady. If I speak a bit faster, I will make that point shortly. We need more players in the marketplace. That is the way to drive down prices. It is also the way to ensure that we have individuals as co-generators of their own energy, rather than simply sitting back as consumers. I want to let the Minister know that, should he be minded to go down this route, he would have enormous support from the public.

A YouGov poll commissioned by Compass and Friends of the Earth found that 71% of voters support a levy on the profits on the big six; 77% support the money raised from such a levy being ring-fenced for home insulation and energy efficiency, particularly to remove people from fuel poverty; and an overwhelming 86% of voters support an independent public inquiry.

I am also encouraged that 70% of people support a move away from fossil fuel to renewables. That indicates strongly that we need to kick-start a national debate on energy that not only focuses on price and competition, but more fundamentally on the kind of energy industry that we want for the future, recognising that energy provision should be viewed not merely as a market commodity, but as a public service that we all rely on.

If we do not use less energy or successfully make the transition to renewable energy, bills will keep going up, because the cost of gas is projected to rise, even allowing for highly controversial shale gas extraction as well. We need to work hard to protect the vulnerable as much as possible from those price rises and ensure that the effects are not exacerbated by the greed of the energy companies. Instead, we need an energy industry that helps to deliver social and environmental progress, lifts people out of poverty and helps to bring about a good society.

On the point made by the hon. Member for Liverpool, Wavertree (Luciana Berger), I am interested in drawing on best practice from countries such as Germany, where community ownership of the grid has played a pivotal role in allowing renewables and energy efficiency, for example, to flourish—unlike here in Britain, where the grid is privately owned and controlled. Many citizens in Germany see themselves as owners and generators of their energy, not simply as consumers. That is the kind of shift that I want to encourage, so we need to challenge the unacceptable power exerted by some of our big energy companies.

Local authorities potentially have a major role to play here, too, in relation to both insulation and to local, decentralised energy supply. The more we make it easy for communities and councils to generate their own, the less we rely on the big six. The more we cut energy waste and get off gas, the better protected we are in relation to bills. Of course, we urgently need to tackle the complex domestic rates and charging system that has been the subject of so many debates and motions in the House and that serves time and again to disadvantage consumers, especially those who use the least energy.