Industrial Training Levy (Engineering Construction Industry Training Board) Order 2012

Lord Young of Norwood Green Excerpts

Monday 19th March 2012 Grand Committee

[Lord Young of Norwood Green]

My Lords, I, too, thank the Minister for her explanation of these orders. Generally speaking, we welcome the levy. Indeed, if it applied across all industry we might find another means of ensuring that we had more training and more apprenticeships, given that only 4 per cent to 8 per cent of employers actually employ apprentices. I welcome the fact that despite difficult times a significant majority of both the engineering construction industry and the construction industry still believe that the levy is a valuable and viable way forward.

I certainly concur with the points made by my noble friend Lady Turner in relation to women in engineering. Significant attempts are being made by companies to ensure that more women are involved in engineering, and in getting those women who are involved to go to schools and spread the word that this is an industry that provides useful employment and good-quality careers. The same can be said of construction. We are gradually beginning to see more women. I do not know if my noble friend Lady Turner has had the opportunity to visit the Olympic site and see the apprentices there, but it was certainly good to see more female apprentices involved in the construction stages.

I do not have any additional questions. I did not draw the same conclusion from the consultation outcome as the noble Lord, Lord Razzall, because when I read through it I felt that they made quite strenuous efforts to ensure that they had a widespread consultation. They recognise that a declining number of employers are involved in trade associations so they have gone for a wider survey. I think that the surveys are valid and can be justified. I understand why there has been only a one-year levy ordered, but I welcome the fact that both those levies will be realigned.

[Baroness Wilcox]

My Lords, I thank noble Lords very much indeed for the short debate that we have had. As soon as I saw the noble Baroness, Lady Turner, stand up, I almost saw the noble Baroness, Lady Platt, standing up with her because when I first came into this House they were doughty campaigners, and still are. The noble Baroness, Lady Turner, may be interested to know that the noble Baroness, Lady Platt, has stayed in contact even though she has to be at home most of the time and has written most encouraging letters throughout her absence, so she is with us in spirit if not in body.

Although the number of women in this field is increasing slowly, the CITB recognises that the number of women employed in construction remains disproportionately low, and it is directly addressing this issue by actively promoting equality and diversity. It was awarded the equality standard in 2011. Gaining the equality standard is a first for a sector skills council. It is also the first time that an organisation working across the three nations has achieved that standard, so things are improving, although there is more to do.

The noble Lord, Lord Young, kindly mentioned the apprentices at the Olympics site. I have been there and met them. It is lovely to see young girls having the opportunity to take on careers which are stretching them in every way. Both industries are health and safety-intensive industries, as the noble Baroness, Lady Turner, said. We have been told by both organisations that offering excellent training and following rigorous standards is a priority, so they realise that there is further to go in that regard. It is good to hear them say that themselves.

It is important that the levies do not place burdens on small firms, as I am sure my noble friend Lord Razzall will agree. That is why we have the exemptions. As I said earlier, 50 per cent of small firms involved in construction will not have to pay the levy. My noble friend asked about the surveys. I think that they were justified. Getting people to take part in surveys nowadays is not the easiest thing, but given the breadth of this issue, I think that a figure of some 52 per cent or 59 per cent is good. I am delighted that the noble Lord, Lord Young, was happy to welcome that.

The combined figures from associations and the sample showed 85 per cent employer support for the levy, so that looks good. The proposals before the Committee relate to the construction and engineering construction industries, as we have just said. It continues to be the collective view of employers in these two industries that training should be funded through a statutory levy system to secure a sufficient pool of skilled labour. I commend these orders to the Committee.