G7

Debate between Lord Wigley and Baroness Evans of Bowes Park

Tuesday 3rd September 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I thank my noble friend. He is absolutely right that a range of technical solutions are already being used. He mentioned a few. Others include trusted trader schemes, transit provisions, frontier zones and electronic pre-clearing for goods moving across the border. There is a lot of work ongoing, looking at how these solutions can come together in order to mean that we do not need the backstop.

My noble friend mentioned that there was no communique. France had said all along that it wanted to move beyond the standard format, which is why only a statement was published rather than a communique.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, may I press the Leader further on the backstop? She just read out, “any future agreement must include the abolition of the anti-democratic backstop—which is, by the way, opposed on all sides”. These are the words the noble Baroness used and which were presumably used by the Prime Minister earlier. Is it now the position that the Irish Government are opposing maintaining the backstop?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

That was in relation to the problems that the Government are having in getting the withdrawal agreement through the House of Commons and was in that context. It has been very clear that we will not be able to get the agreement through with the backstop. That has been one of the major issues that Members across the House of Commons have raised. That is why we are focusing on that issue with the Irish and our EU partners in order to ensure that we can remove it so that we can get the deal that we want and get agreement at the October Council.

Leaving the European Union

Debate between Lord Wigley and Baroness Evans of Bowes Park

Wednesday 22nd May 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I am glad the noble Lord at least agrees with one element of the withdrawal Bill, and I look forward to his support on the rest of it.

[Lord Wigley]

My Lords, does the noble Baroness seriously believe that the package put forward by the Government today reflects the vote of those who voted for Brexit in 2016? If it does, why do they fear having a confirmatory referendum? If it does not, surely it requires such a referendum.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I have said, we want to deliver on the first referendum. The people said they wanted to leave the EU; we have been in negotiations with the EU for several years now; and we now have a deal that we believe is the best way to leave the EU in an orderly way, and we can then begin our discussions on the future relationship—the fruitful, productive and positive future relationship—that we want going forward. But we need to have this withdrawal Bill passed in order that we can move on to do that.

European Council

Debate between Lord Wigley and Baroness Evans of Bowes Park

Thursday 11th April 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I do not believe that there is any certainty that a general election would resolve the issues that this Parliament is grappling with. We need to deliver on the result of the referendum, which is to leave the EU. We have negotiated a good deal. There is a withdrawal agreement which can be agreed, allowing us to move on to discuss our future relationship with the EU. That is what we are focusing on. We are working across the House of Commons to try to find a way that this can be approved and we can start to move forward.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, at the weekend the Prime Minister said that the choice had boiled down to her withdrawal agreement or no Brexit. Given that we now have until October, the reason for not holding a people’s voice opportunity has gone. There is every possibility of having another referendum on the two choices that the Prime Minister says exist. Why can we not do that?

Leaving the European Union

Debate between Lord Wigley and Baroness Evans of Bowes Park

Tuesday 26th February 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I am afraid I cannot agree with the noble Lord.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

If the House of Commons votes against leaving without a deal, are the Government committed to supporting an extension of Article 50 for as long as is needed to get a deal?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I have said, a series of votes will need to happen at that point. However, the Prime Minister has made it clear that she does not want to extend Article 50, but if the House of Commons votes to do so she would like the shortest possible extension.

Leaving the European Union

Debate between Lord Wigley and Baroness Evans of Bowes Park

Tuesday 12th February 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I am happy to reassure the noble Lord that the Secretary of State for Exiting the EU is indeed writing to members of the EU committee in the same way that he has written to members of the House of Commons committee to seek views on engaging Parliament in the next phase of the negotiations. I can assure the noble Lord that the voice of your Lordships’ House will be heard. Of course, Ministers regularly attend and give evidence to our committees, which are considered very important. Certainly the views of your Lordships’ House are well heard.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

Can the noble Baroness confirm that if, on 27 February, another meaningful Motion is before the House of Commons and is amended to rule out a no-deal Brexit, the Government at that time would be bound by such a decision?

Leaving the European Union

Debate between Lord Wigley and Baroness Evans of Bowes Park

Monday 21st January 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

On the noble Lord’s first point, the Prime Minister is committed to getting a deal, which is the best way to avoid no deal. That is what she has been pursuing. The talks continuing over the next few days will aim to ensure that a deal is put forward that can command support across the House of Commons. That is the best way to avoid no deal. As the noble Lord will know, and as I said in answer to earlier questions, Article 50 cannot be extended by the UK alone. It has to be in consultation and agreement with the EU. It is unlikely simply to agree to extend Article 50 without a plan for how we are going to approve a deal.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, in the event of the House of Commons ruling out a no-deal Brexit in a meaningful vote, would the Government honour and respect that decision?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I have said to noble Lords, I am not going to speculate on the decisions of the House of Commons. A Motion is down to which it is very clear MPs will table amendments. There will be votes on that. I am not going to stand here and speculate on what the outcome of that may be.

Leaving the European Union

Debate between Lord Wigley and Baroness Evans of Bowes Park

Monday 14th January 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

We have been clear that it is not our policy to withdraw or revoke Article 50. However, the Prime Minister has been very clear that we are focusing on winning the vote tomorrow. Our intention has always been to respond quickly and provide certainty on the way forward in the event that tomorrow’s vote does not pass, both in terms of setting out our next steps and any subsequent vote, and that is what we will do.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, the Prime Minister says:

“With no deal we would have no implementation period, no security partnership, no guarantees for UK citizens overseas, and no certainty for businesses and workers”.


In those circumstances, why does she not rule out no deal?

EU Council

Debate between Lord Wigley and Baroness Evans of Bowes Park

Monday 17th December 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As the Statement makes clear, we have set out the timetable for the vote to take place. We do not want a no-deal situation, which is why the Prime Minister is focusing on providing additional reassurances to the House of Commons, which it has clearly said it wants in order to feel able to support the deal. That is what she is working on, but we have to prepare for all eventualities—that is the only thing a responsible Government could do—and until this deal is passed, there is the possibility of no deal. We are working hard to avoid it but we have to prepare for all eventualities.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, is it not outrageous that a vote that was supposed to take place last week will not take place until the week of 14 January, against a deadline of 21 January? Having sat through more than an hour of the questioning in the other place earlier, it is quite clear that there is not a majority for this deal or for a no-deal Brexit. In those circumstances, is not the plea that was made a moment ago from the Cross Benches for an extension of Article 50 the only sensible way to try to find a consensus, which does exist but is not being allowed to surface?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I am afraid I cannot say anything more to noble Lords about the date of the meaningful vote. That is the date that the Prime Minister has announced. That is the date on which it will take place in the House of Commons.

Exiting the European Union

Debate between Lord Wigley and Baroness Evans of Bowes Park

Monday 10th December 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

At the last general election both main parties said that they would respect the result of the referendum and deliver Brexit. We are doing that.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, I welcome the emphasis placed by the Prime Minister and the noble Baroness on the word “compromise”. Does she accept that if a compromise is likely to be acceptable, it would not be on the basis of crashing out without a deal? In those circumstances, why will the Government not rule out the option of crashing out without a deal to look for a compromise that can bring people together?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I said, because the deal has not yet been approved by the UK Government or the EU, there is still the chance that we will end up in a no-deal situation. It is a situation we do not want to be in but it is only prudent and right that we prepare for every eventuality, and that is what we are doing. The Prime Minister is focused on getting reassurances that will help and enable the House of Commons to feel that it can accept this deal so that we can move on with our relationship with the EU.

Leaving the European Union

Debate between Lord Wigley and Baroness Evans of Bowes Park

Monday 26th November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

An EEA-type agreement is not comprehensive and would not cover issues such as customs, external and internal security, the CAP, the CFP or Euratom. It would leave significant gaps in our wider relationship with the EU. This is a deal that covers all those areas.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, if the EU Court of Justice concludes tomorrow that Article 50 is unilaterally revocable, will the Government give an assurance that they will not rule out the possibility of a temporary pause to avoid unnecessarily crashing out with a shambolic no-deal Brexit?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I am sure the noble Lord will realise that I cannot comment on ongoing legal matters.

Brexit: Negotiations

Debate between Lord Wigley and Baroness Evans of Bowes Park

Thursday 22nd November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I hope I can reassure the noble Baroness when I say that we have agreed to negotiate new arrangements on financial services that provide greater co-operation and consultation than is possible under existing third-country frameworks. For existing regimes, the EU and UK have agreed to move quickly to progress equivalent assessments during the implementation period and, crucially, both sides will endeavour to conclude decisions on granting equivalence by the end of June 2020—which is a major step forward in providing clarity for the industry about a smooth transition to our new relationship.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, I have been able to read this in some detail since this morning. Apart from the general waffle and aspirations—which one would have hoped would have been finalised after two and a half years—the overwhelming factor is the underlined need to rejoin organisations that we are leaving, including agencies dealing with medicines, chemicals and aviation safety, and to get ongoing co-operation on science, youth, culture, education, civil protection and space. We are reinventing things that we are leaving. Why do we not just stay there and get the benefit? The cost of applying to all these will mount up and take away most of the savings we get. We seem to be going around in a full circle to end up where we started.

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

The noble Lord may recall that the British people voted to leave the European Union, and we are delivering that. In response to the noble Baronesses, I said we want to maintain co-operation with certain EU agencies. We will work with our EU partners over the coming months to explore the most effective ways to do that. If we do so and, depending on the level of the relationship, we have also said we will make a relevant contribution.

Brexit: Negotiations

Debate between Lord Wigley and Baroness Evans of Bowes Park

Thursday 15th November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

My noble friend is absolutely right that, under the terms of the withdrawal agreement, the UK will be free to negotiate, sign and ratify FTAs during the implementation period and to bring them into force from January 2021. I have no doubt that we will have many useful discussions in this House about the future relationship with the EU, and I look forward to them.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that the Governments of Wales and Scotland have, as a post-Brexit objective, an ongoing involvement in the EU single market? In view of the fact that Northern Ireland has been accorded such a facility, will she confirm that it is equally negotiable for Wales and Scotland, or is Northern Ireland being treated differently?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

No. As we said, the EU proposal for a Northern Ireland-only customs solution has been dropped and replaced by a UK-wide temporary customs arrangement that protects the integrity of the union.

Brexit: Border Control

Debate between Lord Wigley and Baroness Evans of Bowes Park

Monday 29th October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Davies of Stamford (Lab)]

My Lords—

[The Lord Privy Seal (Baroness Evans of Bowes Park) (Con)]

My Lords, we will hear from Plaid Cymru.

[Lord Wigley]

I am very grateful. Does the Minister appreciate the worries in the port of Holyhead, expressed very strongly by people from Stena Line and from the port authority itself, that there are inadequate numbers of staff to cope with the very high volumes that come from Ireland? Unless something is done urgently, there is no chance of being in a position by 29 March. Can she give some assurance to the House?

October European Council

Debate between Lord Wigley and Baroness Evans of Bowes Park

Monday 22nd October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I thank my noble friend and I entirely agree. I am sure that any of us would be grateful for his prayers to support us.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, on Saturday I was among the 700,000 people who marched through London to protest about what is happening and demand a second vote. Alongside me were two people who had voted “out” in the referendum and are now convinced that they were misled. Given that the Government are not prepared to hold a second vote of the people, how are the opinions of those people going to be taken into account?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

Of course, I respect the views of the people the noble Lord spoke to, but as I have said and as we have made clear, we had a vote in 2016 in which 17.4 million people voted to leave. We will be respecting that vote. We will be achieving a great deal with our European partners to ensure a strong relationship going forward, but we have had a people’s vote and we will now respect their wishes.

Exiting the EU

Debate between Lord Wigley and Baroness Evans of Bowes Park

Monday 9th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I thank my noble friend. As I have said, this is a comprehensive and detailed plan and we are looking forward to negotiating with the EU. We do need to move at pace. Following Chequers, the Prime Minister has called a number of European leaders to take them through the plan. We are looking forward to negotiating our relationship. Those she spoke to, including Donald Tusk, Jean-Claude Juncker and the Prime Ministers of Sweden, Malta and Ireland, welcomed the further clarity. Of course, we will be putting more information out on Thursday in the White Paper, and we will then be taking negotiations at pace in order to achieve a deal that works for both sides.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, earlier this afternoon the Prime Minister was repeatedly pressed on the UK’s participation in the single market and customs union. Indeed, a Select Committee of the other place this morning recommended that it would be in the best interests of the UK to retain membership of those two organisations. The Prime Minister rested her defence for not doing so on the question of unqualified free movement. If it were possible for the mobility framework to be tweaked, and in the context of the new thinking in several countries in Europe on the movement of people, might it not be possible to look again at the question of the single market and customs union?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I am afraid not. The UK’s current position implies two models of relationship: a standard free trade agreement for Great Britain with Northern Ireland remaining in the customs union and single market or membership of the EEA and a customs union. The Prime Minister has made clear that neither of these is acceptable or delivers on the referendum result. That is why we have put forward a comprehensive detailed plan, which we are now looking forward to discussing with our EU partners, to ensure that we can move these negotiations on at pace and deliver the best deal for the UK and the EU which all Members of this House, across this House, want to achieve.

United Kingdom-European Union Future Economic Partnership

Debate between Lord Wigley and Baroness Evans of Bowes Park

Monday 5th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, the Minister has emphasised the need to be flexible and the need for give and take and to be reasonable. Does that go as far as extending to being flexible and reasonable about the date of 29 March if, by being flexible, it is possible to get a negotiated outcome rather than a no-deal solution?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

We are very confident of getting a deal and, as we have said, we will be leaving the EU in March 2019.

European Council

Debate between Lord Wigley and Baroness Evans of Bowes Park

Monday 18th December 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

My noble friend speaks with great experience, and I could not say it better than he did.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, if the Minister is saying, as I believe she is, that the UK will have left the European Union on 31 March 2019 and the single market and the customs union on the same date, but that over the transitional period virtually identical rules to those of the single market and the customs union will persist, on what basis cannot those rules persist indefinitely?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As we have said, we are looking for a time-limited implementation period to ensure that businesses and individuals have to make only one set of changes. We want a swift agreement on the implementation period. Our objective is for access to each other’s markets to continue on current terms, based on the existing structures of EU rules and regulations but for a time-limited period.

Brexit Negotiations

Debate between Lord Wigley and Baroness Evans of Bowes Park

Monday 11th December 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

My Lords, as the Prime Minister’s Statement said, this is not about a hard or soft Brexit; it is about ensuring that we have a deep and special new relationship with the European Union, because we want a deal that works both for our citizens here and for the European Union. It is in all our interests to work towards that. I hope that, come Friday, when it has been acknowledged that sufficient progress has been made, we can begin taking those steps into phase 2 of the negotiations.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, the Minister implied that if the agreement is confirmed, goods and people will move totally freely between Ireland and Northern Ireland—and likewise between Northern Ireland and Great Britain. This being so, will she confirm that goods and people will move equally freely, as they do today, between Dublin and Holyhead?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

As I have said, we want to ensure that we maintain the constitutional and economic integrity of the United Kingdom. We will be working in phase 2 to look at the details of how we deal with the border issues that we have discussed. However, we have been categorical that there will be no hard border within the island of Ireland.

Brexit: UK Plans

Debate between Lord Wigley and Baroness Evans of Bowes Park

Monday 9th October 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I entirely agree with my noble friend about the consistency of the Prime Minister’s position. In fact, we have been putting a lot of information out to the public. We have published seven Brexit position papers, seven future partnership papers and four White Papers, including the two today, and we have set out a clear vision. We want to see progress and we are hoping, as Michel Barnier said, that we will see a “new dynamic” in the negotiations. Inevitably, leaving is a difficult process but we believe, on both sides, that it is in all our interests for the negotiations to succeed and we will continue to work on them in a spirit of good will. Having said that, we also have a duty to plan for the alternative, which we are doing, because that is what any responsible Government would do, but I reiterate that we truly believe that we will come to a deal which will be best for both of us.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, if I understood the noble Baroness correctly, in quoting the Prime Minister she said that the Government are planning for “every eventuality”. That being so, can she confirm that the Government are indeed planning for an exit from the European Union without any agreement? If that appears to be the position in January 2019, is that not the time when the people should be asked again whether they want to leave on those terms?

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park]

I am afraid that I hold a different view from many noble Lords in this House but, as I have said, we are confident of getting a good deal. But, yes, as I just said, we are planning for an eventuality where that does not happen, because that is what any responsible Government should and would do.