Growth and Infrastructure Bill

Lord Vinson Excerpts

Wednesday 20th March 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Morris of Handsworth]

My Lords, I rise to support the amendment removing Clause 27. Let me make it absolutely clear that I am a passionate believer in—and advocate of—the stakeholding society, the stakeholding community and, of course, the stakeholding workplace. Applied to the workplace, the stakeholder principle can deliver workplace harmony, increase productivity and change the culture. I want to see all British workers benefit from the success of their companies, but instead of a few shares that may benefit only a few who have given up their rights, why can we not have a more imaginative approach, for example a profit-sharing scheme through which everyone can benefit from the prosperity of their company while maintaining their rights?

I very much regret that at this critical point in our social and economic history we are still having a debate about the disempowerment of British workers. Frankly, Clause 27 does nothing to increase productivity, improve the quality of what we do or, above all, address issues around investment, research, plant and equipment, people and education. What is needed in the workplace is good industrial relations. Indeed, someone should tell the Chancellor that you cannot build a world-class economy by creating first-class and second-class workers. Under these proposals we would have two groups of workers: workers with rights but no shares, and workers with shares but no rights. What about those who work in the public sector: nurses, doctors, those who sweep our streets or teach our children? Where is their reward for good industrial relations? Where there is harmony in the workplace, Clause 27 is guaranteed to bring strife.

When will the Government understand that some things are not for sale? Workers’ rights are not for sale. They cannot be traded. Dignity at work is not for sale and cannot be traded. The fight against injustice is not for sale and cannot be traded. Clearly, the Government do not understand that there are some things that money cannot buy and that shares cannot put right: dignity at work, self-esteem and fundamental human rights. Clause 27 strikes at the very heart of these principles, which this nation holds so dear. It is sad that the Bill will do nothing to make the workplace more harmonious or productive. Indeed, Clause 27 undermines workplace harmony and I hope that the House will oppose it.

[Lord Vinson]

It is a privilege to follow such an impassioned speech, as well as the extremely logical speech of the noble Lord, Lord King of Bridgwater. I have spent a lifetime promoting wider share ownership, and was for 10 years chairman of the Industrial Co-partnership Association.

All the points that show this clause to be madness have been made. It is extraordinary, in view of the very sensible criticisms in Committee, that the Government have proceeded with this and have seemed to ignore every single comment that this House, with its great qualifications in this area, has put forward. I wonder who is on the receiving end of our help in trying to forge better legislation.

The noble Lord, Lord Flight, was perfectly right to say that legislation to safeguard employee rights has reached the point where it is now preventing jobs from being created. Far from protecting jobs, it has reached the point of job destruction. The right reverend Prelate raised the point about flexible working. Try running a small business, nursing home or anything you care to think of with everybody asking for flexitime. Who mans the ship? It is important that you have core staff working through, to more or less hold the thing together. Of course, there is a nice element of human relationships in small businesses, and they go out of their way to try to meet employee needs in that direction, but pretending that you can bring in a level of compulsion on flexible working would only be done by somebody who has never actually experienced the first-hand difficulties of a running small business.

In Committee I made the point, which has been cited today, that to encourage wider share ownership is good. To recognise that employee protection has possibly been overdone in a number of instances is also right. However, to muddle the two together, to make a quid pro quo in this way, strikes at the very heart of the trust and sense of common purpose that all businesses are trying to build up. Therefore, this clause must be resisted on all fronts.

[Lord O'Donnell]

My Lords, I support the amendment. On this Budget day, it behoves us all to think about how we stimulate growth. This particular clause would actually be very harmful to growth; I agree in particular with what the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, and others said.

When I was in the Civil Service, the Government set up the Red Tape Challenge initiative. That was really important, and there is a second round of that in the Budget today. It is hugely important that we tackle the issues that are holding businesses back, but I am not sure that this proposal emerged from the Red Tape Challenge or that businesses came forward with it.

How does the proposal fit with the Government’s policy of pushing mutuals, which I strongly support? There is a technical point as well: what we economists call adverse selection. If an employer is offering this, they are probably the kind of employer that you do not want to go near. If an employee accepts it, it is probably because they do not really understand what they are doing. On those grounds, it is bad.

I also take the point of the right reverend Prelate and the noble Lord, Lord Morris, about the moral case. I expected to hear the biblical reference: we know that in the old days the price of slavery was 20 or 30 pieces of silver. Is it now £2,000?