Surplus Target and Corporation Tax

Debate between Lord Tyrie and George Osborne

Monday 4th July 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

When I became Chancellor, there was a question mark over Britain’s ability to pay its way in the world, and that was reflected in our bond yields, but because of our determined effort over the last six years, when we have hit an economic shock, as we have done in the last two weeks, the response has been a fall in bond yields—because people have confidence in the UK.

First on planning, extensive contingency plans were in place to deal with financial market disorder as a result of a leave vote, and the fact that we are not debating that today shows that those plans have been effective—we remain vigilant, but those plans were in place. Secondly, we must now decide on the new model of our relationship with the EU. That was not on the ballot paper and has to be a decision for Parliament. We set out the options for the country in advance of the referendum debate, and now we must have that discussion.

Thirdly on planning, the fiscal charter specifically provides for the impact of a negative shock, which is what we have had, and as a result the rules of the charter apply. As I say, it is unlikely that the surplus will be achieved in 2019-20—although that will be for the OBR formally to assess—and it will then be up to the Chancellor to produce new plans to restore the public finances to surplus and for Parliament to vote on them. We thought about that in advance: it is in the charter that the House voted on.

The hon. Gentleman talked about investment. On Friday, I met the Labour leader of Manchester City Council, Richard Leese. We talked about how we could redouble our efforts to invest in transport across the Pennines and about devolved powers for mayors and the like. That will be part of our response to the disfranchisement that too many of our citizens in the midlands and the north of England have clearly felt.

Finally, the hon. Gentleman also asked about business confidence and the corporation tax cuts. Not only have our corporation tax cuts given us the lowest corporation tax rate of all the advanced economies of the world, but we have seen a 20% increase in receipts from corporation tax—because businesses are coming to this country, growing their businesses in this country and employing 2 million people. The best response we can send to the world to show that we are open for business is to go on reducing business tax.

[Mr Andrew Tyrie (Chichester) (Con)]

The Chancellor has done the right thing to buttress the decisions of the Bank on monetary policy with fiscal measures, particularly by allowing the automatic stabilisers to kick in. The 2020 fiscal surplus target was always likely to be a casualty at the first sound of Brexit gunfire, and so it has proved—hence the need to take advantage of the charter’s flexibility. Does he agree that, in order most effectively to bolster credibility in the coming years, over the next few months we need to develop a rule that sets fiscal policy in a longer-term framework and which is resilient to changes in the OBR’s short-term forecasts?

[Mr Osborne]

It is clearly likely that we will be impacted by a cyclical downturn in the public finances—we can already see the growth forecasts being adjusted. The OBR will help us to make an assessment of the referendum result’s structural impact on the public finances and our chances of hitting the target—as I say, it looks unlikely that we will hit it—and then, under the fiscal charter, it will be up to the Government to produce a plan that will be debated and voted on by the House. We have provided for this contingency, and now we need to let the OBR do its work.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Tyrie and George Osborne

Tuesday 7th June 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

Over the past five or six years, we have greatly increased the UKTI budget, but as with every Department, since it is paid for by the taxpayers that the hon. Gentleman and I represent, we need to make sure we get value for money. The new head of UKTI is ensuring that the money is going to the frontline to support small and medium-sized Scottish exporters and others in selling around the world. He should welcome the enormous success of many Scottish businesses, from the whisky business to agricultural industries and manufacturing, in exporting around the world, with the support of UKTI—the clue is in the first two letters.

[Mr Andrew Tyrie (Chichester) (Con)]

The Chancellor has introduced a subsidy for peer-to-peer lending tax relief on ISAs, which is a high-risk, high-return market. Most people support the intention, which is to increase competition in the SME lending market, but many are becoming concerned that some of these loans are being marketed to those who cannot reasonably be expected to understand the risks. What is the Treasury doing to ensure that the taxpayer does not end up encouraging the marketing of schemes to people who can least afford to lose the money?

[Mr Osborne]

At its own request, the peer-to-peer lending industry is now regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority, which is alert to the risks that my right hon. Friend identifies, but I wish to make a broader observation. In the financial crash, we saw the limitations of the UK’s credit system, where many companies were reliant on bank finance. In the last few years, we have tried to broaden the range of financing options for small and medium-sized businesses, in terms of not just capital markets but innovative new products such as peer-to-peer lending. Using things such as ISA wrappers to encourage this new form of finance for small businesses is a good thing for our economy.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Tyrie and George Osborne

Tuesday 19th April 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Andrew Tyrie (Chichester) (Con)]

The recent information-sharing agreement that the Chancellor has just referred to could turn out to be a very significant step in the fight against tax evasion, and I support it. The public are right to be upset when businesses or individuals do not pay their fair share of tax. Evasion needs to be rigorously pursued, but does the Chancellor agree that when that is caused by tax avoidance, it is the job of Government to simplify the tax code and close the loopholes exploited by the avoiders?

[Mr Osborne]

I broadly agree with my right hon. Friend. I welcome the welcome that he gives to the agreement that we have with four other European countries on the exchange of information on beneficial ownership. We hope that will set an example that not just the rest of Europe, but the rest of the world will follow.

On tax avoidance, of course it is the responsibility of the House of Commons and the Government to try to make sure that the tax code and tax law are simple and do what is intended, but we are in a constant race, as has always been the case, against highly paid accountancy firms and the like, who design very contrived systems to avoid tax and avoid the intention of Parliament. There has been a significant development in our jurisprudence whereby the Supreme Court now takes into account the intention of Parliament, as well as the letter of the law. I think that is right, because as I say, there is sometimes a bit of an arms race in relation to the tax code, and the wishes of Parliament should be taken into account by our courts.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Tyrie and George Osborne

Tuesday 1st March 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

I believe that the best way to help the UK steel industry is both to take action at home and through being part of a large economic bloc—in other words, the European Union—raising our concerns about, for example, Chinese steel dumping. Frankly, when we make that argument with China, our voice will be amplified if we make it as part of the EU as opposed to making it alone.

[Mr Andrew Tyrie (Chichester) (Con)]

In the event of a no vote, the Government have committed themselves to triggering article 50 straight away. I cannot see the point of that. Why do not the Government give some time between a no vote and the triggering of article 50, to enable a discussion to take place with counterparties and see the extent to which good faith could be established with the countries of the European Union? It seems illogical to restrict ourselves in that way.

[Mr Osborne]

It is not illogical that if the country votes to leave, we leave the European Union. That is the choice for the people of this country. The only available mechanism is the triggering of article 50, which gives a two-year time limit. Of course, we would try to negotiate in good faith and an extension can be achieved, but only with the consent of 27 other nations. People need to be aware that there are not going to be two referendums. It is decision day on 23 June. People need to choose and I think that voting to remain in the EU is the best outcome for our economic and national security.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Tyrie and George Osborne

Tuesday 19th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

Of course the redundancies that have been announced at Tata Steel and elsewhere in the steel industry are a real matter of regret. We are providing all the support we can to the families who are affected and helping them to get into work. We are backing the steel industry by responding to its requests that we cut energy bill costs—that policy comes into effect today; that we change the rules around procurement so that companies and the Government buy British steel; and that we take action internationally against cheap imports from China. Not one of those things was done when there was a Labour Government, and during that period the number of steel jobs in this country fell by 50%. We will not take lectures from the Labour party, but we will back our steel industry.

[Mr Andrew Tyrie (Chichester) (Con)]

Does the Chancellor think that the stamp duty surcharge that was announced in the autumn statement for the buy-to-let market will inhibit or advance labour mobility?

[Mr Osborne]

I think that it will help to promote home ownership, because it will mean that there is a more level playing field between an owner-occupier who wants to buy a house, a first-time buying family and a buy-to-let landlord. There is nothing wrong with people investing in property, but there should be a level playing field so that we reverse the decline in home ownership in our country.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Tyrie and George Osborne

Tuesday 1st December 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

I am very happy to give consideration to that. We are operating within the maximum flexibility that we believe the European Union rules allows us on this. Any postcode that possibly qualified we put forward for the scheme we introduced in the last Parliament, but I am happy to look at specific cases in Northern Ireland to see if they qualify, too.

[Mr Andrew Tyrie (Chichester) (Con)]

The Chancellor said the apprenticeship levy is a levy, but of course what many businesses see is a 0.5% tax on employment collected through PAYE. Does the Chancellor think that is compatible with the tax lock? While he is answering that question, will he also say what estimate he has made of the cost of the apprenticeship levy to the public sector, which I cannot find anywhere in the Red Book?

Spending Review and Autumn Statement

Debate between Lord Tyrie and George Osborne

Wednesday 25th November 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

I want to thank the right hon. Gentleman, who has made sensible and constructive interventions in this debate over recent weeks. The members of his Select Committee also took their task very seriously. Over this Parliament, tax credits are largely being phased out as we move to the new simpler—and better, in my view—universal credit. People will be protected during the transition to universal credit. As he says, we are at the same time reducing the proportion of people’s income that will come from welfare payments because more of it will come from the wages paid by their employers. I do not think we should be supporting and subsidising low pay through the tax credit system in the way we have in the past. In the phasing out of tax credits, the introduction of universal credit and the reforms announced in the summer Budget, including limiting support to families with up to two children, we are creating a fairer welfare system that is fair to the taxpayer.

[Mr Andrew Tyrie (Chichester) (Con)]

A key judgment that the Chancellor has had to make is how much to cut the deficit. With the euro crisis unresolved, the Chinese economy more fragile, the middle east unstable and the US likely to raise rates shortly, does he agree that, given all those risks, it would be not only imprudent but extremely dangerous not to reduce the deficit now, while we have the opportunity to do so? We can never rely on forecasts. Will he confirm that the OBR’s sensitivity analysis towards the back of its report, which I have had a chance to look at only briefly, demonstrates clearly that any future downturn in the public finances would require further retrenchment and that it is therefore absolutely essential we take every opportunity to tighten the finances now, while we have the chance?

[Mr Osborne]

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. As an economy, we have been growing faster than most of the advanced economies of the world. In that situation, not getting the deficit and the debt falling is really signalling to the world that we are never, ever going to try to bring public finances under control. As it is, we have debt falling in every year of this forecast, and it is lower than the forecast in the Budget. The deficit is also falling and overall borrowing is lower in this forecast than in the one I produced in the summer Budget. We take these steps to pay down our debts. Our national debt, at 80% of national income, is uncomfortably high. It does not necessarily, therefore, give us all the flexibility we would want if we were to be hit by some kind of external shock and is all the more reason for us to use the better times to pay down the debt.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Tyrie and George Osborne

Tuesday 27th October 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Andrew Tyrie (Chichester) (Con)]

Does the Chancellor agree that whatever our views may be in this House on the tax credit dispute, in overturning the settled will of the elected Chamber, the unelected Lords has exercised the powers of a Chamber of Parliament in the tax area, whereas for at least 100 years it has been well established that it has, and should have, only the legitimacy of a consultative assembly?

[Mr Osborne]

The Chair of the Treasury Committee makes an important point. Of course, on only five occasions in recent decades has the House of Lords blocked or rejected a statutory instrument, but never on a financial matter. We heard a whole range of opinions yesterday—from Lord Butler, the former Cabinet Secretary, to constitutional experts such as Vernon Bogdanor—telling us that this was unprecedented. We are going to have to address it—the Prime Minister has made that very clear. That is what we have to do to make sure that the elected House of Commons is responsible for the tax-and-spend decisions that affect the people of this country.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Tyrie and George Osborne

Tuesday 21st July 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Andrew Tyrie (Chichester) (Con)]

I am sorry about that, Mr Speaker. I thought that the Chancellor was just getting into gear.

Growth will, of course, depend partly on what the Bank of England does. Over the past five years, the Chancellor and Parliament have granted the Bank huge new powers over not only monetary but, in particular, financial policy, which directly affect millions of people. Does that not make the reforms of the way in which the Bank runs itself that the Chancellor will propose, along with greater accountability for its new board—for which the Treasury Committee, among others, has been pressing for a long time—all the more essential?

[Mr Osborne]

I pay tribute to the work that was done during the last Parliament by the Treasury Committee, some of whose members are still in their posts, and I again congratulate my right hon. Friend on remaining Chair of that Committee. Today we are publishing the consultation document on the new Bank of England Bill, which will come before Parliament in due course. The Bill follows the reforms announced by the Governor of the Bank, which built on the work done by the Treasury Committee and others. It will ensure that a modern Bank of England is able to exercise the leadership that is required for the delivery of economic and financial stability. Moreover, for the first time—this is crucial, and I think that Parliament will appreciate it—the Bank will be open to the advice of the National Audit Office, and the value for money that that can deliver.

Greece

Debate between Lord Tyrie and George Osborne

Monday 6th July 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his remarks and his questions, which were sensibly put. I agree that what we want is an orderly way forward, and the risk is a disorderly financial situation in Greece. I have spoken to several of my counterparts, including, as I have just said, the head of the Eurogroup and the managing director of the IMF; the Prime Minister has spoken to the German Chancellor and others. The simple fact is that the eurozone is waiting for the Greek Government to make a new proposal. They have requested a new programme, and they are expecting to receive the details of that request at the eurozone meeting that will be held tomorrow, but we should not underestimate the importance of the Franco-German summit tonight to see what general approach the eurozone will take to this situation.

Greece is now in arrears, so the IMF cannot actually make any payments under the terms under which it has always operated. The IMF would in any case have to operate alongside the eurozone, as it has made very clear.

The UK is monitoring developments in the four branches of the Greek banks and the one subsidiary that we talked about. That subsidiary is regulated by the Prudential Regulation Authority, but the Bank of England is also keeping a close eye on those four branches.

The hon. Gentleman asked about the bank deposit regulation and the insurance we offer. It is an EU directive that sets that rate in euros. The pound has strengthened and we actually achieved a bit of flexibility in the way the directive operates by delaying the change we need to make to the end of this year, to give plenty of time for people to become aware of the change and so that they know how much of their deposits will be protected.

We are in contact with the various tour operators, which are generally well organised to deal with various situations that might occur in holiday destinations. As I said, we have taken the precaution of increasing the consular staff—not just in Athens, but on the islands where we have a consular presence.

The blunt truth is that there are two timetables at the moment, and it is not clear how they will become aligned. The first timetable is political—the meetings that need to take place, the eurozone working together to find a common position and the proposal from the Greeks. All that looks like it will take some time. At the same time, the other timetable is the situation in the financial system in Greece—that, of course, is operating at a much faster pace. The challenge for the eurozone and for Greece is to bring those two timetables together and find an orderly solution.

[Mr Andrew Tyrie (Chichester) (Con)]

I realise that the Chancellor will want to be somewhat guarded in his reply, but how far can he go towards agreeing that Greece probably cannot recover at current euro exchange rates and almost certainly will not be able to repay all its debts, so the best course now—for Greece and the eurozone—would be to encourage Greece to recreate its own currency and for the eurozone to take all the necessary steps to prevent contagion?

[Mr Osborne]

Just as when people try to tell us what currency we should adopt we do not take too kindly to it, we should respect the decision of the Greek Government and people about the currency that they want to use. Clearly the Greek Government are saying that they want to remain in the euro. The tension, which has been there all along, is between that desire to remain in the euro and the conditions of membership that the other members of the eurozone are placing on them. That is the dilemma that has not yet been resolved.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Tyrie and George Osborne

Wednesday 17th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

We made it very clear when we set out our proposals on housing benefit that we would protect particularly vulnerable people, such as those that the hon. Lady refers to, and I welcome her to the House.

I would make a broader argument about welfare reform. This country faces a very simple choice. We have 1% of the world’s population and 4% of its GDP, but we undertake 7% of the world’s welfare spending. We can either carry on on a completely unsustainable path or we can continue to reform welfare so that work pays and we give a fair deal to those on welfare and a fail deal to the taxpayers of this country who pay for it.

[Mr Andrew Tyrie (Chichester) (Con)]

Does the Chancellor agree that today’s elections to chairmanships of Select Committees are a great success story for Parliament as a whole? [Interruption.] Particularly for me—[Interruption.] I am very grateful for that further gesture of support from the whole House of Commons. Since those elections are a success, and particularly if the Prime Minister is going to miss a few Wednesdays, will my right hon. Friend suggest to the Prime Minister that he appear before the Liaison Committee more than three times a year?

[Mr Osborne]

I will certainly pass on the request. My hon. Friend is right to draw attention to the success of these elections, which did not exist before the Conservatives came into office. I am not sure that his own election is the best possible example, as I think he is unelected and unopposed in his own election.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Tyrie and George Osborne

Tuesday 16th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Andrew Tyrie (Chichester) (Con)]

The Bank of England may be operationally independent, but does the Chancellor agree that Parliament and the Treasury Committee are likely to see the Bank as having a duty to share its thinking, at least as far as it affects its statutory objectives of monetary and financial stability, on the impact of the UK’s membership of the EU?

[Mr Osborne]

I certainly do not presume to tell the yet-to-be-formed Treasury Committee how to go about its business, but I would be very surprised if it did not want to have sessions on this vital issue of Britain’s future membership of the European Union. It is of course within its power to ask the Bank’s Governor and indeed other members of the Bank of England to attend; they do attend regularly. It would be very surprising if the Bank of England was not engaged in these crucial economic and financial issues. That is part of its statutory responsibilities, and I think we would all be disappointed if it was not engaged.