Council Tax Valuation Bands Bill [HL]
Debate between Lord True and Lord Butler of Brockwell
Lord True
My Lords, I am grateful to those who have spoken and to my noble friend on the Front Bench for the kind things that he said. They are entirely unjustified: I can assure him that there are many, many people—leaders and former leaders of local authorities—who have far greater expertise than me. We heard from one of them, the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie of Luton, with whose intervention I very much agreed. His extremely pertinent point about disguised ownership was touched on also by my noble friend Lord Cormack. The massive capital inflows to the country are an issue and we heard, in the Chancellor’s recent forecast, the expectation of the scale of future inflows of individuals and capital that are distorting the market. Attempts are being made to chase, capture and tax that money, but it is difficult. This matter might need to be examined but it is not necessarily a matter for this Bill. Neither is it necessarily a matter that would defeat the Bill, but it is an interesting, separate point of detail.
I was grateful for what the noble Lord, Lord Butler of Brockwell, said, not least because he agreed with me in detail while making a point on substance. One difficulty with taking the value of a property at a particular time is that it is a snapshot. The current council tax system, albeit based on 1991 values, has benefits. There is a separate argument about revaluation, and I said at the outset that this debate is about my noble friend’s Bill, not about whether we should have higher bands. My noble and learned friend Lord Mackay of Clashfern made a very important intervention on that. A property changing hands is a snapshot of its value at a time, whereas the council tax basis is an assessment of relative values across the country. Although there will be anomalies in it, it is broadly—and certainly at the time it was introduced it was intended to be—fair and accurate.
I said in my opening remarks that my noble friend Lord Marlesford brought forward an interesting point and the noble Lord, Lord Butler, supported him. I understand the logic of this. But if you just take individual snapshot values you will get the variations that the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, referred to, which will be frozen in two parallel bands. And it will not reflect the fact of market change.
Relatively, all houses in an area will go up and down with the market. There will be variations. But let us say that there is a property crash, which is quite possible with some of the excessive values we have now. Under my noble friend’s scheme, if you have scrimped and saved to buy a house worth £525,000 and the market goes down, you will find yourself paying a council tax which is twice that paid by people who paid £495,000. If it is on the excessive value that has been charged before, what does the person do when the value goes down and they find themselves paying twice as much as their neighbours who have just bought the house next door?
Lord Butler of Brockwell
I am grateful to the noble Lord for giving way. I see the anomaly that he refers to. However, is it not the case that the person who bought the house before the value crashed did so with their eyes open? They knew what their tax liability would be. Is it not fair that that liability is maintained, even though the value of the property may have changed?
Lord True
The noble Lord makes a perfectly reasonable point. However, although you can appeal to the valuation tribunal on the valuation of the house, there is a risk that there would then be a cry that the value was no longer fair. Revaluations and appeals on business rates can sometimes take years to determine. I was pointing out that there are potential anomalies and the noble Lord makes a perfectly reasonable point. However, there is a risk of creating new industries and new administrative costs.
I should not, in this response to the debate, have gone into a new detailed point. I apologise to the Committee.