Neighbourhood Planning Bill

Debate between Lord True and Lord Beecham

Committee: 3rd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 6th February 2017 Grand Committee

[Lord True]

My noble friend makes a strong point but I do not agree with him, I fear. I am not going to repeat the points I made on the previous amendment. The problem with new subsection (5) is that it effectively gives a veto to the developer and therefore a power, which may or may not be a good thing.

However, my noble friend made a good point in relation to, for example, a play area. We all understand that the wonderful civil servants who work for my noble friend are trying to do a reductio ad absurdum of what might happen, so they find a council that has said, “Oh yes, the play area has to have one of those spring things instead of a see-saw”. We all know that that would be ridiculous. Maybe it has happened. But there are things on that list, as the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, said, that are actually quite important and germane. Anyone who has been on a planning committee trying to secure development in suburban or rural areas will know that lighting is one of the most fiercely contested things that local residents care about most. It is also one of the most difficult things to control.

No doubt some things on that list are silly. Perhaps my own authority is one of the bad authorities. We have occasionally have had a run-in with the people who want to put in boxes for broadband, not because we are against it but because they come and say, “We want to bang this box right in front of a grade 1 listed building”, instead of agreeing to put it a little further down the road, and they rush off and have dinner with the Chancellor and the Chancellor says, “This is ridiculous. We must have legislation”. This is the way the world works. We all know that.

Somewhere in the middle of all this is a sensible via media. Saying that you cannot develop until you put a Big Ears statue in would be completely ridiculous. But some of these other things are best dealt with at an early stage. Drainage is obviously a good one, as are sustainability and lighting. The problem with this goes back to my analogy right at the start—the old Dreadnought thing. Time and again, we poor local authorities face legislation in the dock—always local authorities, never the statutory undertakings, never the builders with the land banks. Only the local authority is to blame because the local authority is perhaps trying to reflect some of the opinions of its local people by whom it is elected. We are always put in the dock and the Dreadnought is brought out to deal with the silly local authority which says, “I must have a Big Ears statue before I give any permission to 150 homes”. Of course the Government want to deal with that.

I have an open mind on this clause, as I said, although I hear what my noble friend Lady Cumberlege has said and I do care about neighbourhood planning. Surely there must be a way through that is not just nationalising this massive power to deliver for the exceptions that are causing problems. Surely it must be possible between now and Report, with the spirit that my noble friend the Minister has displayed, to find a way to give the Government a power to deal with the authority that wants Big Ears before there can be a development, without actually taking away the ability of local authorities and neighbourhoods to protect what they think is important and have development with consent. That is all I ask for. If Clause 12 can find a way to do that, let us look at it. At the moment, it does need amendment. We will see what happens between now and Report.

[Lord Beecham (Lab)]

My Lords, I apologise to the Committee for being absent during the discussion of the previous group, and the very beginning of this group. I am afraid I have had to return from a funeral; otherwise, what I am about to say now I would have said in the debate on Amendment 43A, to which I added my name.

As the Committee will recall, Amendment 43A reflects the recommendation of the Delegated Powers Committee in paragraph 22 of its recently produced report, which came out on 27 January, dealing with the way the Government propose to exercise the delegated powers contained in the Bill, as set out in a document published last December under the intriguing title Further Information on How the Government Intends to Exercise the Bill’s Delegated Powers. Five areas were identified in respect of which the intention is to rely on secondary legislation. For this afternoon’s purposes, we are of course dealing essentially with the planning conditions in Clause 12. However, there are other issues: Clauses 1 to 5 are on neighbourhood planning, Clauses 6 to 11 are on local development documents, Clause 13 is on the planning register and Clauses 14 to 36 are on compulsory purchase. Therefore, although the Delegated Powers Committee drew attention to a series of matters, today we are dealing with the relevant provisions under Clause 12, which I suspect is in any event probably one of the more controversial clauses.

As we have heard, the Bill vests the Secretary of State with powers by regulation to prevent authorities imposing particular types of planning conditions in any circumstances at all or only in particular circumstances, as prescribed by the Government, and to stipulate that no conditions at all are to be imposed on particular types of grants of permission. The Government’s explanation of this was that,

“there is evidence that some local planning authorities”—

number and identity not disclosed—

“are imposing unnecessary and inappropriate planning conditions which do not meet the tests in national policy, resulting in delays to the delivery of new development”.

It is of course interesting that the Government make no mention of the hundreds of thousands of houses for which planning permission has been given but of which not a brick has been laid. They concentrate only on other potential problems.

The Government have admitted that,

“the power to prescribe the circumstances where conditions may or may not be imposed and to set out the descriptions of such conditions is wide”.

They concede that, but conclude that a delegation is appropriate. The committee expressed concern that the power would,

“allow the Secretary of State to prescribe conditions in relation to any type of planning conditions when the key aims of the Bill are to facilitate the building of new homes”,

and expressed surprise that no reason for this was given. Some of us would argue that even in respect of new homes it goes too far, but to make it more general and part of any planning permission seems beyond the scope of what the Bill is supposed to be about.

The committee stated at paragraph 16:

“We consider it inappropriate for the Government to be given a power which could be used to go well beyond the stated aims of the Bill”,


and recommended that it should apply,

“only to planning conditions for housing developments”.

It went on to criticise the proposed replacement of the existing power to provide guidance discouraging the imposition of unreasonable conditions with a power to prohibit such conditions completely, without any opportunity for the relevant planning authority to justify those conditions. Furthermore, the Government have expressed their intention to exercise the Bill’s delegated powers, including draft regulations specifying five types of condition that will be prohibited. The committee points out that there would be,

“nothing to prevent the Secretary of State from using the new power to prohibit many more conditions”,

so we are not necessarily just being confined to five areas. This would give carte blanche to introduce further prohibitions in the future.

Unsurprisingly, and in common with so much legislation, including the Housing and Planning Act, which we spent so much time on last year—the fate of which may be somewhat altered, one hopes, by the housing White Paper that is about to emerge—the committee states that,

“the negative procedure is not an adequate level of Parliamentary scrutiny for the exercise of these new powers, which could substantially restrict the ability of local planning authorities to attach conditions to the grant of any type of planning permission”.

It recommends that the affirmative procedure should apply to proposed new Section 100ZA(1).

The committee goes on to express concerns in relation to proposed new Section 100ZA(5) to (7), which deal with pre-commencement conditions: the controversial provisions which forbid planning permission being subject to such conditions without—extraordinarily —the written consent of the applicant. That is a significant change in the law and a significant move away from the local planning authority to individual developers. But no illustrations of such conditions are included in what passes for the explanatory material provided with the Bill. Although, as I understand it, the committee was provided with some at its request. It is extraordinary that in a matter as controversial as this, the explanatory material completely overlooked the issue. Under the Government’s scheme, in only one case will it be possible to impose such a condition: when the applicant fails to reply within 10 days of receiving notice of a proposed condition. The committee was concerned that there is no duty to consult before making regulations in relation to these provisions and said that,

“the Secretary of State should be required to consult not only developers but also local planning authorities and other interested parties”.

It recommends in paragraph 30 of its report that,

“the Secretary of State should be required to consult before making regulations under subsection (6)”.

If the suggested amendment is made, the Delegated Powers Committee will be content with the negative procedure. If not, it recommends the affirmative procedure.

I do not know what the Minister’s response was—I take it this issue would not have been raised in the opening debate—but I understand he has indicated that there will be a further response to the Delegated Powers Committee. However, I hope he is able to take back the view—which I think will be widely shared by this Committee, across any political divide—that it is simply not good enough to rely again on the use of a negative procedure on important matters of this kind. It has happened far too often and has been the subject of many reports, Bills and committees in your Lordships’ House, and yet the Government seem to ignore all the doubts and objections and continue to use—or propose to use—the negative procedure for dealing with highly controversial matters. The Minister is not able, alas, to change this with the stroke of his pen, but I hope he will convey what I think will be the view of many in this Committee, across the political divide, that this is not a satisfactory way to proceed, particularly as we are dealing with a significant change in the planning regime.

I hope the Minister will take back the strong views that have been expressed and that by the time we get to Report, we will see some Government amendments. Otherwise, I envisage that there will be amendments on Report from across the House seeking to test the House’s opinion on whether the Government should be allowed to get away with what many of us consider—and clearly what the Delegated Powers Committee considers—to be an abuse of process.

Housing and Planning Bill

Debate between Lord True and Lord Beecham

Wednesday 27th April 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, this may well be Third Reading, but the amendment will go to the other place as a Lords amendment, so it is perfectly possible, as my noble friend has courteously offered, for the matter to be clarified and, if there is a need for further technical clarification, that could be made in the other place.

[Lord Beecham (Lab)]

May I just point out that in Clause 53, on the same page, there is a definition of a letting agent, and that it is pretty much the same as how Clause 54(1), and the amendment, would define a property manager. So there would be consistency between the two positions. If there is to be clarification, it would presumably, on whatever basis, apply the same rules to both a letting agent and a property manager.

Housing and Planning Bill

Debate between Lord True and Lord Beecham

Monday 25th April 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Beecham]

My Lords, I am grateful to all noble Lords who spoke in the debate, particularly my noble friend Lady Andrews and the noble Lord, Lord Taylor. It is a pity that the noble Lord, Lord True, was not in his place to hear my noble friend refer to the problem that he raised on another amendment the other evening about the conversion of commercial premises.

[Lord True]

I was here, my Lords. I just chose not to intervene.

[Lord Beecham]

I beg the noble Lord’s pardon. My mind was obviously elsewhere. I should have been conscious of the noble Lord’s presence. He is certainly to himself true and no doubt he will have been encouraged by the references made by my noble friend. The enthusiasm of the noble Lord, Lord Deben, for local councils to take decisions is very welcome. I do not quite recall it being as forcefully expressed in his days as Secretary of State, but my memory may be playing me false on that front.

The reality is that this amendment calls for local authorities to do no more than meet minimum standards. That seems a perfectly sensible provision. Indeed, as the Minister has already indicated, the 1984 legislation was based on a similar concept. Of course, as has already been mentioned, the Parker Morris standards operated for decades very successfully—and, frankly, should never have been abandoned.

The Minister’s offer of a review and so on is helpful. I hope that that might be taken forward productively. But I think it would be desirable for the House to give an indication of its feelings here and I therefore wish to test the opinion of the House.

Housing and Planning Bill

Debate between Lord True and Lord Beecham

Monday 11th April 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Beecham]

My Lords, the amendments in this group deal with the need to broaden the concept that the Government are promoting to ensure that a range of different needs are met, and in particular that affordable homes for rent should be included in the policy as it develops—literally—on the ground. That is the thrust of the amendments to which I and my noble friend Lord Kennedy have added our names, and to which those who tabled them have already spoken.

I can recall a time when the Labour Government’s requirement for regional housing strategies to be prepared was vigorously opposed by the Conservative Party on the grounds that it was an interference with the local decision-making powers of individual authorities. It was a view that overlooked the need to regard the provision of housing as more than just the concern of an individual authority because, of course, some were finding it impossible to make provision for their communities simply because of the dictates of geography. The classic case was that of Stevenage Borough Council, which was literally unable to build within its boundaries and was prevented by its neighbouring authorities from making any further provision for its residents.

Now we have a situation where the Government are apparently to determine what counts as a starter home and are taking, in the views that have quite correctly been put to your Lordships’ this afternoon, a much narrower view than is acceptable, in particular in relation to looking purely at the supply of starter homes for purchase when that cannot meet all the current needs and those that are likely to arise in many parts of the country.

I hope, therefore, that the noble Baroness will feel able to accept the thrust of the amendments. I do not know which of them will be put to the House; I suspect that it will be Amendment 8, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Kerslake. Although it does not refer explicitly to the provision of affordable rented houses, it places the responsibility where it should lie, which is on the local authority. There is an implicit indication that local housing need will have to reflect the need for rented homes as well as owner-occupied properties.

This does not in any way vitiate the Government’s approach. It will not and does not seek to prevent the building of homes for sale in this context, but it recognises that more than one need must be met. I hope that the Government will look sympathetically at this proposal—and if the noble Lord chooses to test the opinion of the House, the Opposition will certainly support him.

[Lord True]

My Lords, I, too, should declare an interest as a member of the Leaders’ Committee of London Councils. I should make it clear that London Councils is sympathetic to the amendments in the group, although I do not speak on its behalf.

I hope very much that my noble friend, in summing up, will show the same understanding she had in Committee for the issues raised in the amendments. There is certainly a concern about the hierarchy of need and the difficulty in some areas of providing affordable housing, and the potential problems, particularly in high-income areas in my case, of starter homes squeezing out. I know that it is not the intention of my noble friend Lord Kerslake, or anybody else, but I do not want to see us getting to the point where we make it less likely that a government initiative, which was a manifesto initiative, and has been supported, will be implemented across the board. It is an extremely difficult balance to strike.

I am seeking something that is not necessarily on the face of the Bill but which shows a real display of understanding by the Government of some of the tensions and difficulties. I think that I heard in Committee—and I am sure that I will hear again today—about the difficulties of providing for the gamut of different types of housing needs in an area. That will certainly include affordable for rent, starter homes where we can do them, and other things of a different nature. So I would be nervous of putting something in the Bill that might inhibit or be used to inhibit—it could be the basis of legal challenge, or whatever—the delivery of starter homes, but I hope that my noble friend will show very much that she has heard and understands the spirit of the amendments.

Housing and Planning Bill

Debate between Lord True and Lord Beecham

Wednesday 23rd March 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, I apologise to the House, and in particular to the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, with whom I have had the pleasure of discussing the issue, for arriving slightly late. I was actually delayed on the District line; I hope that it was not by some underground development in South Kensington, where we were held.

I was at one point tempted to sign the noble Lord’s amendment because, like my noble friend, I think that he is very much on to something. Before my noble friend on the Front Bench was a Minister, and over several years, there have been talks between local authorities, particularly in London, and the department. There have been various efforts—my noble friend Lord Selsdon was trying to get something moving for a time—to propel a response from the Government. Time and again, we are told that Article 4 directions are the answer. We spoke a little about Article 4 directions last night. I marvel to see my noble friend here on the Front Bench after her efforts after midnight last night. Article 4 directions are not the whole answer here. It is the strong view of local authority leaders in London, across party, that there needs to be a statutory response here. The fact is that in many cases one is dealing with extremely wealthy people who will stop at nothing to push through. It is nothing to them to spend thousands of hours and tens and hundreds and millions of pounds in pushing these things. Frankly, communities need defence here and I think some statutory response is needed at the end of the day. I look forward to hearing what my noble friend has to say and I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, on and thank him for bringing this issue before Parliament.

[Lord Beecham (Lab)]

My Lords, I endorse what the noble Lord said about my noble friend, who managed to survive yesterday’s long sitting. He hoped to get on before midnight, but unfortunately that was not possible, or perhaps fortunately because otherwise we might have been there until 2 am instead of something like a quarter to one. My noble friend has devoted a lot of time and energy to what is clearly a pressing issue.

There seems to have been an outbreak of megalomania in certain circles in London, in particular. From a distance, one is not as involved with the process, but every so often, just reading the Standard, one hears of case after case of absurd would-be developments. I have friends living in north London where similar idiotic adaptations are made to buildings. We warmly support the amendments and I hope the Government will acknowledge the real problem here and agree to deal with it. While they are doing that, could they protect the block of flats in Balham where I have a flat from the underground workings for Crossrail, which is likely to cause certain problems to me and to lots of other people?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord True]

Briefly, I welcome what my noble friend and others have said about student accommodation. It is not easy. We have expanding universities and noble Lords are right to say that there is usually strong opposition from local people when they hear “student housing”. However, a friend of my daughter’s is still at university and is rather more concerned that her local launderette might be turned into a house.

[Lord Beecham]

I thank the noble Baroness for her remarks. I hope that the matter can be taken forward. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Housing and Planning Bill

Debate between Lord True and Lord Beecham

Tuesday 22nd March 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Beecham]

My Lords, I hesitate to disagree with my noble friend because I entirely agree with him that the price of land is a significant issue, and it has risen to an unconscionable extent in recent years. However, I do not think that is a good enough reason to acquit the industry of poor design and poor building. Good design and well-built properties are not incompatible with a reasonable price, even allowing for the undoubted problems of land prices. I am afraid that volume builders over the years, when prices were not as high, have not produced good-quality properties, paid little attention to issues such as energy conservation—never mind the aesthetics. My noble friend is being overindulgent towards the industry while making a very valid point about land prices.

I hope the Minister will think about the land price issue. My noble friend Lord McKenzie muttered the words “Develop land tax” to me as I rose, and that is not a bad idea, to be reverted to. That apart, I hope she will stress the need for good design as part of the Government’s approach to housing and part of their interest when looking at the technical side of permitted development. I would not like to see carte blanche given to the kind of builders who put up pretty depressing properties, as the noble Duke, the Duke of Somerset, referred to before. We should not give them any excuse. They should be made, in the context of the new system, to provide aesthetic quality and energy-efficient quality, among other things, as part of the deal.

[Lord True]

My Lords, we are reserving remarks about the register until later, so I am puzzled about the register and the point of it and what we will actually do with it when we as a local authority have it, as I said earlier. I agree with what has been said about design, but I also hear what has been said about sustainability. The only thing I would say is that some of the ugliest properties that I have ever seen passed the highest sustainability tests—the wonderful eco-house that is completely jarring in its setting. There are tensions between design and sustainability. That of course leads me back to local rather than national determination. We have to tease out some of these things before putting them in the Bill.

Cities and Local Government Devolution Bill [HL]

Debate between Lord True and Lord Beecham

Wednesday 15th July 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, I was referred to by my noble friend and although I was not going to speak on this amendment—I have made only one speech in the course of this Bill—I was provoked to speak by what was said by the noble Baroness opposite. I am afraid that I am not going to follow my noble friend in trailing a great speech on 11 September, but I look forward to participating in that debate. I think that he is too wise an old bird to assume that he really knows everything about the council tax—but, if he wants to hear it, I shall be there on 11 September.

I was provoked by the noble Baroness opposite, who was quite open in what she said—that she wants more money and more tax. She said, “We need more income”. It was cloaked in the marvellous language of equity, but it was actually the true language of the party opposite. Does my noble friend on the Front Bench agree that, having been seen off on the mansion tax by the British people not very long ago, the noble Baroness is leading the charge to get back at the British people by other means, behind the front doors of their homes?

[Lord Beecham]

It is right to begin the Opposition’s response to this issue by reminding the House that the noble Lord, Lord Heseltine, to a large extent removed the poll tax and replaced it with the council tax, which was a distinct improvement, although it must be said that the council tax contains an element of the poll tax within it. That is what leaves us in an anomalous situation, more than 20 years on, with this now outdated tax base.