Lord Taylor of Holbeach
Main Page: Lord Taylor of Holbeach (Conservative - Life peer)Localism Bill
Lord Taylor of Holbeach Excerpts
Lord Taylor of Holbeach
My Lords, I begin by thanking my noble friend Lord Lucas for raising the whole question of rabbits out of hats. I think that the answer was given to him by the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie of Luton: a question of time is a question for the usual channels. They will indeed ensure that we achieve our aspirations for the Bill—I am certainly determined to do so. The way that the Committee has dealt with this enormous group of amendments is extremely encouraging and suggests that we will be able to meet our task, and I thank noble Lords for agreeing to this grouping.
This is an important part of the Bill. The duty to co-operate will require local councils and other bodies to work together actively and on an on-going basis to ensure that strategic issues are effectively addressed in local and marine plans. The duty will be a key element of the Government’s proposals for strategic planning once the regional strategies are abolished. The noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, pointed to the fact that some issues are on a substantial scale and the region seems the most likely vehicle for their discussion. From my own experience, which is similar to his as we both live on the borders of regions, one of the most difficult aspects of planning on a regional basis in my part of the world was the very fact that the prime focus of economic activity in the area—namely, Peterborough—was in a different region, and the construction of a road between Boston and Peterborough required an enormous amount of convoluted negotiations in order to achieve this objective. In my view, and I have expressed this in debate before, large units create much more inflexible boundaries than do small, active units and this duty to co-operate ensures that the appropriate level of scale can be brought to bear on any particular aspect of planning strategy.
These authorities will be working alongside incentives such as the New Homes Bonus and the reformed Community Infrastructure, as has been said. It will act as a strong driver to change the behaviour of councils and other bodies. We have worked closely with a wide range of external bodies whose advice and expert guidance has helped us shape the duty that we are debating today.
As I move through the amendments and the comments made in the debate, I will do my best to answer the various points. Amendment 147FK seeks to remove the enabling power to prescribe bodies that will be subject to the duty to co-operate. That would just leave local and county councils as bodies that are subject to the duty. We believe this is not enough to achieve the degree of co-operation that is needed to ensure that local and marine plans address strategic matters effectively. Bodies such as the Environment Agency and the Homes and Communities Agency play a critical role on strategic issues and that is why we intend to prescribe them along with others which have an important contribution to make.
As I have mentioned, the list of prescribed bodies will include, for example, the Environment Agency, Natural England, the Home and Communities Agency and the integrated transport authorities. The draft regulations have been placed in the House Library and we will be consulting on them during the summer. I might say in her absence to the noble Baroness, Lady Andrews, that we all appreciate the work of English Heritage but it has an ongoing engagement with local authorities on the whole issue of the preservation of heritage and historic buildings. The expectation under this Bill is that this duty should be applied in a reasonable and proportionate way but should be part and parcel of the existing ongoing relationship between these national bodies and the local authorities concerned.
The noble Lord, Lord Beecham, asked about the Greater Manchester Combined Authority, which we jointly saw through in the Moses Room one afternoon. In effect, each of the local authorities is indeed a planning authority. The Greater Manchester Combined Authority does not have powers as a planning authority but, because it is combining in its activities, it can serve as an exemplar of a duty to co-operate. Indeed, it is a very fine example of that activity. The list is in the House Library and we intend to consult on the regulations over the summer months.
Amendments 147FJ, 147FL and 147FKA seek to add marine planning authorities on the face of the Bill. Amendment 147FK also seeks to add integrated transport authorities but I have covered that point. Amendment 147R seeks to amend the Marine and Coastal Access Act 2009, with which my noble friend Lord Greaves and I were intimately involved, to ensure that the Marine Management Organisation has regard to the duty to co-operate when preparing marine plans. It would also require the Marine Management Organisation to demonstrate compliance with the duty as part of the independent investigation process for marine plans. I can assure my noble friend Lord Greaves and, although the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, is not in his place at the moment, I would like to reassure him, too, that the duty to co-operate will indeed include the marine areas for coastal authorities.
We appreciate the importance of co-operation in relation to preparing marine plans and they are included in the activities on which co-operation is expected under the duty. That builds on current practice where the MMO has consulted widely, including with local councils and organisations like the Environment Agency in preparing the East Inshore and East Offshore Plans. The noble Lord, Lord Cameron of Dillington, will understand that there is a duty under the Flood and Water Management Act, which we considered fairly recently, for co-operation, not only within local authorities but with the Environment Agency, to make sure that proper flood plans are prepared. This is another example of this system working in practice.
We appreciate the important role of the MMO and integrated transport authorities under the duty to co-operate and that is why we have included them in the list of bodies that will be subject to the duty. As a result, Amendments 147FJ, 147FL and 147FKA are unnecessary. With regard to Amendment 147R, the first part of the amendment is also unnecessary because Clause 95 already applies marine planning. It would also require the MMO to demonstrate compliance with the duty as part of the independent investigation process. This process works very differently from the independent examination procedure for local plans, not least because of the inability to make any binding proposals. Therefore, we do not consider this amendment would assist in ensuring compliance with the duty.
Turning to sustainable development, which was mentioned by a number of noble Lords, Amendment 147G seeks to ensure that the preparation of local plans and related activities enables the planning of sustainable development. Amendment 147HZA aims to ensure that the engagement between councils and other bodies will achieve sustainable development. We share a commitment to sustainable development which underlies these. The Planning and Compulsory Purchase Act 2004 includes a duty on councils preparing local plans to contribute to the achievement of sustainable development. That is why we have included sustainable development in the heading of Clause 95 and put it at the heart of strategic matters that we expect to be addressed in local plans.
The duty to co-operate will ensure that councils and other bodies plan for sustainable development by engaging actively and on an ongoing basis on strategic planning matters as they prepare local plans. We think this addresses the concerns but we will look again at it and see whether we have gone far enough.
On the activities that are covered by the duty to co-operate, the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie of Luton, mentioned housing especially as being a big issue. We are going on to discuss housing in the next group of amendments. Amendments 147HA, 147HB and 147HC seek to extend the scope of activities to which the duty applies to include the implementation of local and marine plans as well as their preparation. We appreciate and share the desire to ensure that the strategic priorities of local and marine plans are implemented but we believe that the requirement to co-operate on the preparation of plans is a powerful one. These plans set up-to-date frameworks, which will be implemented by councils through the development management system and the delivery of sites in their ownership. Plans will also set the framework for the investment priorities of other bodies, which will be set out in their corporate plans. The amendment is therefore considered unnecessary.
Lord Beecham
The Minister has artfully described what an LEP is. Can he tell us what an LEP does? That is the thrust of the question.
Lord Taylor of Holbeach
What an LEP does is a subject for another debate altogether. However, it is well worth saying that it brings these local authorities, working together under a duty to co-operate in general terms, together with the local business community for the benefit of that community’s development in all the ways that we wish to see—economic, social and environmental. That, really, is what an LEP does.
Lord Beecham
May I press the Minister a little further? Does an LEP have powers and resources to do these things, or is it a forum for discussion? That has value but it is not quite the same as having functions of the kind I have just mentioned.
Lord Taylor of Holbeach
My Lords, what I am describing is exactly the vehicle through which power is exercised—the duty to co-operate and the construction of local plans. That is exactly what we are engaged in. The interface between the LEP and this process is important. We may have accidentally entered into something that elaborates, I hope, on the force of the Government’s argument in this area. My noble friend Lord Cotter was a little concerned that the membership of the boards of LEPs was perhaps not fully representative. We are not telling LEPs who they should put on their boards, but we expect board members to be drawn from a breadth of experience—from small enterprises through to large businesses and representing key sectors in their areas. My experience of the LEP that covers my area seems to bear this out through the individuals who have got involved and engaged with it.
It is appreciated that the aim of the amendments in this group is to ensure effective co-operation on local economic development issues. We share that objective but believe that it is better to give LEPs the space to innovate, rather than to impose a national statutory model on them. Effective co-operation on economic development issues can be achieved through an enabling power, which requires bodies that are subject to the duty to have regard to the activities of other bodies when preparing their local plans and related activities. We intend to prescribe local enterprise partnerships, which will represent local business interests in local planning regulations, for this purpose. We have placed the draft regulations in the House Library and will consult on them later this month. The approach that we are taking will support growth and strengthen local economic co-operation under the duty, but it will leave LEPs the freedom to innovate and work flexibly.
Lord Greaves
I hear what my noble friend says with interest. First, will he reflect on having just described LEPs as representing business interests? Surely the whole purpose of LEPs is that they are a partnership between business and local authorities, and therefore represent both those interests, not just one of them. Secondly, could he explain how merely putting a duty on LEPs to co-operate and promote co-operation amounts to a rigid national statutory framework?
Lord Taylor of Holbeach
I am sorry if I misled the Committee. I am well aware that LEPs are joint bodies, representing the interests of local government and business. I think that is what I described earlier. If the syntax of what I just said implied that that was not the case, I withdraw that. However, I think I said that we intend to prescribe local enterprise partnerships, which will represent local business interests in local planning regulations for this purpose. My point is that they represent business interests as well as community interests.
There are several amendments that I would loosely describe under the heading “Engagement under the duty to co-operate”. They include Amendments 147J, 147K, 147HP, 147HQ and 147JA. They seek to strengthen the engagement required under the duty to co-operate by requiring actions, rather than giving councils and bodies the flexibility to consider whether to undertake these actions. I refer again to the contribution of the noble Lord, Lord Cameron of Dillington. The key point is that strategic planning needs to be flexible to allow councils to decide how to co-operate effectively. This will depend on the issues that they face. As I have already described and as the noble Lord himself said, flood and water management requires a totally different combination of interests from, say, highways or housing policy, which are founded in different ways. That is the great advantage of this structure. Prescribing a specific outcome, such as a joint infrastructure assessment, would not allow for the flexibility that is needed to make this an effective vehicle.
Moving on, Amendments 147L and 147M address similar concerns about engagement. They seek to establish a specific document—a joint strategic infrastructure assessment—to be produced as evidence of effective engagement under the duty. Amendment 147HF addresses similar joint infrastructure planning guidance, which it implies should be included in the activities to which the duty applies. It sets specific requirements in terms of the purpose and content of these documents. The amendment seeks the involvement of councils that are part of a local enterprise partnership and requires that the objective of the bodies preparing these documents should be the achievement of sustainable development.
We share the objective of having a duty to co-operate that will ensure effective co-operation by councils and other bodies. However, strategic planning is not a one-size-fits-all approach. It needs to be a flexible process led by councils that allows them to respond to particular issues and local circumstances. Flexibility is essential to allow them to decide how best to work to serve their local communities, businesses and interested parties. We agree that strategic infrastructure plays a critical role in supporting the delivery of economic growth and housing, and that is why we have included it in the Bill.
Clause 95 requires councils to consider whether to work jointly on policies and activities related to strategic cross-boundary and county issues. It gives local planning authorities and county councils flexibility on how to fulfil this responsibility, rather than forcing them to produce specific documents. That strikes the right balance by ensuring that co-operation will result in effective local plans and by strengthening accountability to local communities, businesses and interested parties.
Councils that are part of a local enterprise partnership will already be subject to the duty to co-operate, and there is no need to refer to them separately. I have received assistance for the noble Lord, Lord Beecham, on the functions of LEPs. We do not want to be precise on their roles or functions. They should follow local priorities that they and their communities consider important. We want LEPs to leave development proposals to local enterprise. That is their task and their role. They are not public bodies and are not reliant on grant funding, but they provide a forum and an agency to start up funding, if that is part and parcel of the proposals. LEPs are therefore facilitators rather than providers, if I may describe them in that way.
Amendment 147J would also remove the requirement on councils and other bodies to consult on agreements on joint working approaches. However, we believe that this is an important element of co-operation in local planning that will allow all the relevant parties to suggest the most effective ways of working.
A number of amendments in the group seek to describe strategic matters, and would delete the reference to sustainable development and focus on development that impacts on at least two planning areas and projects forming part of a strategic network. Amendment 147HM focuses on development needs that cannot be accommodated within one planning area and the development of potential strategic importance. One might say that the issue of the housing requirements of Stevenage that the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie, brought to our attention is relevant.
It is appreciated that there are many ways in which strategic matters could be defined for the purpose of the duty to co-operate. We recognise that the concern behind these amendments is to ensure that the duty effectively captures strategic matters that affect more than one authority. We share this concern but believe that the duty should capture strategic matters in a way that is flexible and allows councils to respond to particular local circumstances. We wish to retain the reference to sustainable development because of the importance that we attach to it, as I highlighted earlier.
Some concern was expressed about statutory guidance. Amendment 147N deletes the requirement on councils and other bodies to have regard to any guidance that the Secretary of State may issue about how the duty to co-operate should be complied with. Such guidance, should the Secretary of State decide that it is necessary, will be important in helping councils and other bodies to understand how to discharge their responsibilities under the duty to co-operate. It will therefore be important that they have regard to it.
Lord Beecham
To take the Stevenage situation again as an example—there will be others—one authority may say, “We are not going to have housing in our borough to accommodate you”. There are two distinct points of view, and there is no real sanction. If a plan does not get approved, that suits the authority that wants to keep the status quo. Therefore, there is no recourse for the Stevenages of this world in that situation. Is that not the problem? There will be no co-operation and no plan, and there will be no solution to the problems that one of the authorities might have.
Lord Taylor of Holbeach
The process of co-operative working actually requires co-operation and a sense of shared purpose in serving the communities that the local authorities represent. There may well be tensions. There may well be situations where there is difficulty in seeking agreement. The law will place on local authorities a duty to seek to resolve these differences. If they show that they have not considered the outcomes of a co-operative process in formulating their local plans, those plans will be rejected. There is, therefore, gentle coercion. However, as with all circumstances where power is being devolved down to local authorities, the public interest is being vested in those democratically elected bodies—namely, the local authorities concerned. That is the purpose of this legislation. I do not need to lecture the noble Lord, Lord Beecham, on the virtues of democracy and the accountability that comes with it. What is missing is the sense that Whitehall is looming large over the whole process and is seeking to put pressure to achieve a particular outcome through this process. It is important to emphasise that.
Lord McKenzie of Luton
The noble Lord has been generous in speaking to all the amendments, but I want to be clear on the housing issue that the noble Lord, Lord Beecham, described. We have a similar issue in Luton. One authority with a desperate need for affordable housing that cannot be accommodated within the borough may look across the boundary and see opportunities there, but the other authority may take the view, “We don’t want any of this affordable housing encroaching upon our villages”. How is that situation to be resolved? You might have one authority that has genuinely gone through a consultation exercise, has taken a view, and has said, “We don’t want that form of housing here”. Another authority may have a desperate need for that housing. When the soundness of the plan is due to be judged, will the inspector involved just see whether or not the processes and so on have complied with what is required under the co-operation duty, or will there be some value judgment that the inspector can make, and say, “In all the circumstances, this was an outrageous position for you to take, and you have therefore not complied with the duty to co-operate”?
Lord Taylor of Holbeach
It may be easier to consider the detail of the point that the noble Lord has raised when we come to discuss the next series of amendments. In general terms, there will be evaluations not just of the outcome of the local plan but of the way in which evidence has been collected together in order to provide that plan. That is perhaps a safeguard that we might have. We will have an opportunity to talk about housing in particular, so I hope that the noble Lord will forgive me if I seek to move on—I have been talking a long time, but there were a lot of amendments.
In winding up, let me deal with Amendment 147HN, which seeks to define planning documents by referring to town and country planning and marine planning legislation. However, the term “planning documents” is not used in the provision. As it stands, the duty covers all local planning authority documents that set out their policies in relation to the development and use of land. It also covers marine plans. This amendment is therefore unnecessary.
Amendment 147LA, which seeks to require the bodies subject to the duty to co-operate to have regard to the activities of prescribed bodies, is also unnecessary as this is already provided for in Clause 95, in new Section 33A(2)(b).
I now come to an exciting point in bold type that says that Amendment 147Q addresses a typographical error in Clause 95. We are happy to accept this amendment when it is moved by the noble Lord. I hope that noble Lords will remind me when that particular amendment is called.
I will close by saying that I am satisfied that the duty to co-operate will ensure that local councils, county councils and other bodies work together in the spirit of constructive and active dialogue. That will maximise effective working in the preparation of local and marine plans in relation to strategic cross-boundary issues and county matters. With these reassurances, I hope that the noble Lords are willing to withdraw the amendments.
Lord Lucas
My Lords, perhaps the solution to the difficulty of the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie of Luton, is to reach back into the history of local government and reinstate single combat between neighbouring chiefs, who would then be seen to be earning their salaries at least.
In that great Gladstonian oration that we have just heard, I missed the answer to my question. How does the wording in Clause 95 permit the duty to cover the sort of situation that I was discussing, where there is a national network to be looked after and it needs to be discovered where the burden of that falls between various local authorities? I do not see how that is dealt with. I would be happy if the noble Lord would write to me between now and Report.
Lord Greaves
My Lords, I thank the Minister for the great care that he has taken in responding to these amendments. We might get on a bit quicker on one or two of them if the people providing him with his briefings understood that, often in Committee in this House, we put down “leave out” amendments in order to find out what things mean and how they will work, rather than delete them. We are not actually always trying to get rid of them. I realise that sometimes they have to guess which it is, but that is the case.
There is a difference of approach. Some of us would like to have a much clearer high-level duty placed on local authorities and other bodies and far less detailed regulations on how to do it. Some of us would like to rely on that, rather than have a weaker duty and then masses of detailed regulations. The duty to co-operate is a classic case of that. On the central issue of whether the duty in this part of the Bill is as strong as it needs to be, some further discussion will be required before we are finished with the Bill. There is a feeling in quite a bit of the Committee that perhaps it would be a good thing if we could find ways of strengthening the duty a bit further without resulting in even more reams of detailed rules and regulations. I hope that the Minister would be open to discussion of that, in so far as we are able to have discussions over the summer.
On that basis, I thank the Minister and everybody who took part in this debate, and I beg leave to withdraw Amendment 147FJ.