Arbitration and Mediation Services (Equality) Bill [HL]

Lord Swinfen Excerpts

Friday 19th October 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Swinfen]

My Lords, I congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Cox, on bringing this Bill forward. Members of this House of many religions have spoken today and, like my noble friend Lord Cormack, I am sorry that so far we have not heard any representatives from the Muslim faith, which I think would have been very useful.

It is well over 50 years since I was at school and most of the history that I learnt I have probably forgotten. However, I can remember being taught that in the Middle Ages we had the Royal Courts of Justice, but that those who worked for the church as clergy, or just worked for or were connected with it, were judged by ecclesiastical courts. The punishments and decisions of the two systems of justice were not always the same. I am glad to say that we got rid of that because everyone should be treated the same and fairly under the law. Unfortunately, another form of religious court appears to be coming into being. In due course, it could produce division through the peoples of this country, which we wish to avoid. We must have equality and fairness for all under the law.

In the briefings that I have read on this subject, I understand that many Muslim marriages are invalid under British law and that very few mosques have a licence to perform marriages. The vast majority of Christian churches are licensed to perform marriages and to register those marriages under the law of the land. In the Minister’s reply, I should like to know what is being done to encourage and ensure that mosques, Hindu temples and other religious establishments in this country are licensed to perform marriages so that all people are properly protected, particularly the wives and children of those marriages. In the eyes of God, I am sure that the marriage is the same whether it has the right piece of paper or not, but it helps in this world to have the right piece of paper to produce at the right time.

What is being taught in schools on the operation of the law with regard to fairness under the law, mediation and arbitration? We have heard from others that the results are not always the same. The rulings of Sharia courts, Jewish courts, Hindu courts or Sikh courts should be confirmed by a judge in the Royal Courts of Justice, probably in chambers, to see that they are compliant with the law of the land and that the rulings are being fair to all, no matter what their religion and what part of the country they come from. I support this Bill.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I am delighted to agree with my noble friend. I shall certainly raise those matters that he raised as well as those points that all noble Lords have expressed in this debate.

[Lord Swinfen]

Before my noble friend sits down, could he answer the question that I asked when I spoke as to what the Government are doing to ensure that mosques are licensed to carry out marriages and that there is a civil document for those who are married rather than a purely religious document which is not valid in English law?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, as I have said, the Government are working with faith groups. One of the points that will be considered is that some mosques are registered but not all. I certainly think that this is an interesting way forward.