Science and Heritage: S&T Committee Report

Lord Stevenson of Balmacara Excerpts

Monday 4th February 2013 Grand Committee

[Lord Stevenson of Balmacara]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Sharp, for introducing the report and, through her, I thank the committee for both its original report and its supplementary report, which have generated the interesting discussion that we are having today. I also thank my noble friends Lady Hilton and Lady Andrews and the noble Earl, Lord Selborne, for their comments.

It is quite rare for committees to invent things or coin phrases. One thinks about camels and horses, but it seems clear that the committee invented “heritage science” as a brand or an identifier for the sort of work that it wanted to see happen and where it had found gaps in the past, and we must be very grateful to it for doing that. Trying to identify a new area or new discipline is very difficult, but where science and heritage overlap is obviously a bit of a dark space, and it has been brought into the light and some work has been generated around that.

The common theme that has wound through all the contributions so far in this debate has been the way in which the speakers have come across the heritage sector and, more generally, the cultural sector because, although this debate is about heritage, it seems to be picked up in a number of different sectors, including museums and galleries, not necessarily of “heritage” in the physical sense. The common theme appears to be that this is a very fragmented sector and, although funding had been reasonably good until the recent downturn, it is now suffering badly from the fact that it is being underfunded and is seeing a number of its previous groups and supporters pull back because they themselves are also having trouble with their funding. This is obviously a problem. Therefore, it is good not only that we have this supplementary report but that we have an opportunity to discuss it, because there are important issues at stake here.

My noble friend Lady Andrews said, and I should like to repeat, that you cannot overstate the importance of science in relation to the work for which she is responsible and in relation to the sector in general. Her wonderful and very timeless example of Richard III, which brought us up to date on how science can help with the conservation, understanding and illumination of the history we are engaged in, as well as engaging audiences—both tourists and our own citizens, is a brilliant way of getting us into this topic.

I want to talk about four or five recommendations in the supplementary report and, in particular, the Government’s comment on it. I also want to ask the Minister some questions, some of which are quite detailed, and I understand that he may have to write to me if they are beyond the brief that he has today.

The noble Baroness, Lady Sharp, mentioned recommendation 1. This relates to the concern about the link across to the research councils—in particular, the AHRC, which has done a great job in developing a programme here. However, difficulties have been found in the EPSRC and now the NERC as well. The response provided by the department indicates that the Government have,

“demonstrated its strong commitment to science and research by protecting the programme budget with BIS with a flat-cash, ring-fenced settlement”.

Those are weasel words, perhaps, because inflation has eroded that settlement, so they cannot have protected the programme budget. Can the Minister tell us where the cuts have actually occurred in the areas for which he and his department have responsibility and what is going to happen? Can he also share with us the department’s response to try to reignite interest in the EPSRC and the NERC, without which this programme will suffer badly?

On recommendation 4, which concerns the relationship between the department and its arm’s-length bodies, the noble Baroness, Lady Sharp, and others mentioned the great need in this fragmented sector for leadership from the department. The committee recommended that before the next round of funding negotiations with arm’s-length bodies, the DCMS should set specific departmental objectives for heritage science related to its departmental objectives to protect our nation’s cultural heritage. Similarly, the ALBs should set out how they will help to achieve these objectives in funding agreement negotiations with the department.

In the response, the DCMS appears to have watered down its approach to this by saying that it is setting out principles. Only one of them, as we have been reminded, deals with heritage science. Can the Minister give us more detail on why this has happened and the reasoning that led to the decisions that flowed from that; for example, limiting the cuts to the museums to 15%—they are still cuts—and restricting English Heritage’s activities to a rather narrower group? The response goes on to assert that,

“it is clear to the DCMS ALBs … that heritage science is an integral element of their responsibilities”.

It may be clear but can the Minister explain why the department has not taken up the committee’s suggestion that it requires ALBs to set out how they will help to achieve those objectives and why these aspirations are not included in the funding agreements? After all, if they are not in documentation and therefore not being measured, it is highly unlikely that the DCMS will be able to put any pressure at all on the ALBs, which, of course, are suffering financially.

In recommendation 5, the noble Baroness, Lady Sharp, made a number of points about the chief scientific adviser role mentioned in the original report. Indeed, the supplementary report says that the failure to find the resources to enable the appointment of a CSA would amount to “negligent short-termism”, which is fairly tough phraseology. The committee is clearly of the view that the department should have a CSA and I think that the DCMS’s response here is very limp. Appointing an undergraded principal adviser and not a chief scientific adviser is not sufficient. To misquote Wilde, one economist might be forgiven but two in a row seems negligent in the extreme. They are supposed to be scientific officers and to lead with expertise and knowledge in this area. I have nothing against economists—many of my friends are economists—but they do not necessarily have this kind of expertise. Certainly they would have been at a bit of a loss in digging up Richard III from the concrete under which he was buried. These are trivial examples; nevertheless, if this is going to be done properly, surely the department must get a grip and find a position, and a budget to go with it, that will support the aspirations involved.

We are not only talking about this report today: the report of the Science and Technology Committee sets out what should be the role and functions of departmental chief scientific advisers. Now that we have a second appointment, can the Minister confirm that the scientific adviser is carrying out all or most of the functions outlined in that report—for example, policy involvement, including sign-off, access to Ministers, membership of key committees, access to a dedicated fund to commission research or to convene a group of experts and a formal role in decision-making about departmental spending on research? Does he or she—it is a he this time, I think—have staff to support his work and, if so, how many? Those are the minimum criteria required for chief scientific advisers and, if we are not going to get the full post—clearly there will be some reduction—I hope that the aspiration will be there to ensure that this post delivers what is required.

On recommendation 7, the noble Earl, Lord Selborne, drew attention to the fact that the committee is keen for the DCMS to facilitate access to European funds, and he particularly mentioned programme 8. The response indicates what has been going on here. Obviously there has been some valuable work but it concludes that the Government believe that cultural heritage research can now expect strong support from EU funding through Horizon 2020. Can the Minister update us on what has happened? Has there been any strong support and, if so, what form does that take?

Recommendation 13 suggests that a forum should be set up to facilitate the development of a digitisation framework to promote and manage the overall digitisation in the sector. This is a complex and important area, as my noble friend Lady Andrews mentioned, and it plays into a number of points made by my noble friend Lady Hilton on education. Nothing will generate more interest and enthusiasm among our younger audiences than making sure that what is done is done at a level at which they will want to engage and understand. The Government’s response is, again, slightly disappointing. They said—this was picked up—that they do not wish to impose a top-down, centralised structure to any digitisation framework. We can sympathise with that, but that is not the recommendation. It was not to have a top-down direction but to have a facilitation role. Can the Minister explain why the department has chosen not to get involved in this or, if it has, to what extent it thinks it can facilitate the development of this very important work?

The noble Baroness, Lady Sharp, drew attention to the need to retain our lead in this area. As a country, we have a long and distinguished history of being the first in the field on this and of providing our heritage and other bodies with terrific support, both centrally and through collaboration with industry and the departments involved. In conclusion, can the Minister give us any hope that this future development has been spotted and will be supported?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend Lady Sharp of Guildford for initiating this debate and I pay tribute to members of the committee for their continued focus on this important area, without which advances in science heritage would certainly not have been as extensive as they have been. I say to my noble friend Lady Sharp that this is a far from obscure area. It is in no small part due to the work of the committee and the reports it has produced that the crucial link between heritage and science is now better recognised and better understood. What impeccable timing today for the confirmation that it is Richard III, which was also referred to, and what advances have been made.

It was indeed as a direct response to the committee’s first report in 2006 that the Arts and Humanities Research Council and the Engineering and Physical Sciences Research Council established the science and heritage programme at University College London. It is because science requires specialist expertise that DCMS relies on the skills and talents of scientists within arm’s-length bodies. They develop and apply heritage science techniques across a wide range of fields.

The Government support the work of DCMS’s arm’s-length bodies with a remit for heritage and cultural preservation and the wider heritage community, including the national heritage science forum and Research Councils UK, in their work to disseminate good practice, to collaborate across institutions, to increase capacity across the community, to continue efforts to digitise our cultural heritage and to increase public engagement with heritage science. We will offer support where appropriate. The responsibility on the DCMS’s arm’s-length bodies to care for collections and heritage assets is enshrined through robust governance mechanisms. It is set out clearly in the funding agreements as a condition of government funding, and the protection of heritage is included in the governing legislation of the national museums and the wider heritage sector.

DCMS funding supports heritage science across its bodies, be it the digitisation of the British Film Institute’s collection, the high-tech storage facility for the British Library’s newspaper collection in Boston Spa, or the state-of-the-art conservation and science centre in the new British Museum development. I make particular mention of English Heritage as the noble Baroness, Lady Andrews, has given such a powerful commentary on its work. However, I am sure she would agree that there are 23 further such bodies under DCMS, all immensely important in the work that they do for cultural heritage.

Turning to the committee’s report, the first recommendation of your Lordships was on research councils. The Government welcome the priority that the Arts and Humanities Research Council and the Engineering and Physical Sciences Research Council have given to heritage. I am mindful of what the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson of Balmacara, said about difficult times. I replay to him that the Government have demonstrated our strong commitment to science and research by protecting its programme budget within BIS with a flat-cash, ring-fenced settlement of £4.6 billion per annum over this spending review period. Inflation may be a factor, but it is not huge as I remember inflation in other times.

[Lord Stevenson of Balmacara]

I should like to rerun those figures for the Minister. Inflation has been running at between 2.5% and 3.5% since 2010—and, indeed, from slightly before that—so we are talking about a substantial compound reduction. That is not trivial but quite a big pressure point on all those budgets. I accept the Minister’s general point that it is a cash-limited and therefore substantial figure, but it is still certainly declining.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

I am glad that the noble Lord referred to it as being a substantial figure because, in the climate we are in, it was extremely good news that there was that ring-fenced settlement. A specific point for today is that the AHRC is receiving just under £100 million per annum over the spending review period, which is again a considerable sum of taxpayers’ money and is rightly being spent on that research area.

Research councils’ budgets are delegated, so it is for them to decide how best to allocate funding within the context of their overarching objectives. Building on progress made by the science and heritage programme, to which my noble friend Lady Sharp referred, and the increased research capacity it has brought, the AHRC is now also supporting heritage science through programmes developed in the current spending review period. Heritage is one of three key areas in the AHRC delivery plan for 2011-15. The AHRC will continue to work with the Engineering and Physical Sciences Research Council to ensure that the benefits of the science and heritage programme are maximised beyond the completion of the programme this year.

In turn, the AHRC, working with BIS, has been very actively involved with the consultation on European Commission framework programme 8, Horizon 2020, and has consistently made the case for the inclusion of heritage research in the Horizon 2020 societal challenges. I can tell my noble friends Lady Sharp and Lord Selborne, who raised the matter, that the Government consider that inclusion of heritage science is on track to be successfully achieved.

I say to my noble friend Lady Sharp that it is widely acknowledged in the sector that the science and heritage programme, for which she chairs the advisory council, has done excellent work, and that the body of knowledge that has been gained provides a springboard for further study and research. As has been mentioned, its work on conservation matters as diverse as flood resilience and renaissance sculpture is remarkable.

I turn to the national heritage science strategy and the national heritage science forum, which are referred to in the committee’s report. The Government fully support collaboration across the heritage science community, and we encourage all its bodies to increase their participation, as appropriate, in both the national heritage science strategy and the national heritage science forum. As the noble Baroness, Lady Andrews, mentioned, English Heritage is playing an important part in continuing to support both the forum and the objectives of the national heritage science strategy, to which English Heritage is contributing directly through its own science strategy.

As has also been remarked, there has been an increase in collaboration between research councils, heritage institutions and individuals, and this is most welcome. The Government acknowledge the importance of public engagement with heritage science in stimulating interest in science, technology and engineering, and we support recommendations for the community to achieve this through the national heritage science forum.

I turn to the recommendations specifically directed at the Government. The committee expressed concern about the way in which DCMS monitors its bodies’ delivery of their heritage science responsibility and recommended that the department set specific departmental objectives for heritage science. DCMS has structures in place that enable it to ensure that its arm’s-length bodies fulfil their high-level strategic objectives and indicators, and achieve value for money. I know that the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson of Balmacara, raised this issue, but performance against ministerial priorities and performance indicators is reviewed at regular ministerial and officials’ meetings with senior management of the arm’s-length bodies. The department does not wish to micromanage these bodies by imposing a large number of detailed objectives. The department is close to completing management agreements that cover the current spending review period to 2015. I think that it would be preferable if committee members knew once there had been a completion of those management agreements so that the detail is more readily available, with probably more time to consider.

The committee considered further the arrangements for scientific advice within DCMS, an issue raised by my noble friend Lady Sharp. The challenge facing departments—we all understand this; in many cases it is not a party issue—is to deliver effective policy with fewer resources. There are cost implications for DCMS arising from some of the recommendations made in the report.

Picking up on the point about the work of the DCMS’s Science and Research Advisory Committee, I say to my noble friend Lady Sharp that, in considering its future, the Government Office for Science is now conducting a review with a view to improving and enhancing its work and making it more effective. The department now has a new deputy chief scientific, who is working with the Government Chief Scientific Adviser and the Government Office for Science to fully integrate the department with the chief scientific adviser network in such a way that DCMS can draw on the advice of all other departmental chief scientific advisers as well.

The committee recommended that the department work with partners to ensure that there was no decline in senior heritage science posts. The Government support the recommendation to ensure the long-term health of the heritage community through attracting new scientists to heritage science, and we encourage its bodies to contribute to research and collaboration that could do more to achieve this goal.

The committee made recommendations about possible sources of funding for heritage science, which are entirely in tune with the department’s policy to support efforts by the heritage sector to broaden its range of funding sources, in particular through philanthropy. We agree that philanthropy has an important part to play in supporting heritage science. To support the fundraising efforts of the cultural sector, the DCMS, Arts Council England, and the Heritage Lottery Fund have set up the Catalyst programme, with more than £50 million going towards the establishment of endowments to be matched by a further £100 million from private donors. Among those receiving endowment grants is the Mary Rose Trust, to which the noble Baroness, Lady Andrews, referred, which was awarded £1 million last June. The Mary Rose was the first modern warship, but as important as the history of the Mary Rose is the science from the Mary Rose. The Mary Rose Trust is the world leader in specialised marine conservation and has Europe’s largest maritime archaeological conservation centre.

The Government recognise that digitisation has huge potential to facilitate wider and higher quality access to and understanding of future cultural collections and artefacts. Indeed, last summer, the Heritage Lottery Fund launched a new digital strategy and announced that funds can now be used for digital-only projects. As has been replayed to me, the Government do not wish to impose a top-down centralised structure to any digitisation framework, and have asked their arm’s-length bodies and the sector to collaborate together with the NHLF on a national or international framework for digitisation. The DCMS’s arm’s-length bodies are already taking the lead in attracting commercial funding for the digitisation of heritage collections, such as the partnership between the British Library and Google to digitise 250,000 out of copyright books from the library’s collection.

The committee’s work stands as an important touchstone against which work and progress in heritage science can be judged. It recognises the intrinsic value of our cultural heritage and the sector’s importance to the social, cultural and economic life of the UK and its role in attracting tourists from home and overseas. There are always areas where more could be done, and I am conscious that the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson of Balmacara, has set me some tasks and questions. Given that some of them are quite intricate, I beg leave to write to him, as he generously suggested, so that I can fully consider the implications of what he said. It is important that the department works with its arm’s-length bodies to ensure a wide variety of work where science and heritage meet.

A number of points have been made about leadership, and I can understand what is meant. Clearly, the department has, and should have, an leadership role because it is responsible for the arm’s-length bodies that do the work on the nation’s behalf. The department sees heritage as having a clear role to play in supporting growth and welcomes the emphasis in the follow-up report on the significance of the sector to the UK economy. The Government have recently championed the importance of heritage in their GREAT campaign and the department also recognises the importance of science and of caring for heritage collections now and for future generations. It is clear that preservation cannot be taken for granted.

It has been my privilege over the past few weeks to start meeting some of my ministerial colleagues in the department—I was at a ministerial meeting earlier today, referring to this debate, which is clearly very important. I thank your Lordships. I have learnt a great deal today.

I want reassure the noble Baroness, Lady Hilton of Eggardon, that I have taken on board the points she made about education. Announcements are due. I have been asked this question a number of times in debates. I know of the concern. There is a determination to raise standards for the children of this country but I am confident—and I am a passionate supporter of the creative sector—that the education required to make that sector prosper will be in place. As I said, further announcements will be made.

I also want to say, to the committee members in particular, that it really was a very valuable report. Like all these things there are disappointments that the Government could not accept the proposals in full. I suspect no Government at any time are ever in the luxurious position of agreeing with everything because they have other conflicting demands. However, I would like to confirm Her Majesty’s Government’s commitment to heritage science in particular and to say that your Lordships’ work will be of benefit to all as we seek to preserve and understand better our rich and very valuable national heritage through science.