Scotland Bill

Lord Stephen Excerpts

Tuesday 19th January 2016 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Stephen]

59: After Clause 50, insert the following new Clause—
“Business associations
(1) Part 2 of Schedule 5 to the Scotland Act 1998 is amended as follows.
(2) In section C1 (business associations) at the end of the Exceptions insert—
“(c) the law on partnerships and unincorporated associations,(d) the creation of new forms of cooperative enterprise,(e) the creation of new forms of mutual enterprise,(f) the creation of new economic interest groups where the European Economic Interest Group under regulation EEC 2137/85 is not available because the members do not come from more than one state.””

[Lord Stephen (LD)]

My Lords, Amendments 59, 60 and 61, which are tabled in my name and that of my noble and learned friend Lord Wallace of Tankerness, are Liberal Democrat amendments, but they have been very much inspired by the hard work of the Law Society of Scotland. I thank it and Michael Clancy, in particular, for the detail that has gone into these amendments.

Amendment 59 adds further exceptions to the reservation to the UK Parliament of the creation, operation, regulation and dissolution of types of business association. Under the Scotland Act 1998, the UK Parliament can make law to create business associations, such as partnerships and limited companies. Law can also be made concerning the operation, regulation and dissolution of these associations.

Section Cl of Part 2 of Schedule 5 has a number of exceptions to this reservation. These include the creation, operation, regulation and dissolution of particular public bodies, or public bodies of a particular type established by or under any enactment and charities—your Lordships can see that lawyers have helped me with the wording. A business association is defined as any person, other than an individual, established for the purpose of carrying on any kind of business, whether or not for profit. “Business” includes the provision of benefits to the members of an association. We believe that the exceptions from the reservations should be amplified to include the law of partnership and unincorporated association, and to provide for the creation of various types of new forms of enterprise to allow flexibility for businesses to grow in Scotland.

The Partnership Act 1890 already regulates partnerships in Scotland and recognises in some respects the differences between Scottish and English law in this area. The Law Commissions reviewed partnership law and published a report in November 2003 that dealt with the Partnership Act 1890 and the Limited Partnerships Act 1907, with particular reference to independent personality, continuity of business irrespective of changes of ownership, simplification of solvent dissolution and model partnership agreements. In 2006 the Government announced that they rejected the Law Commissions’ recommendations on general partnerships but that they intended to implement the recommendations specifically relating to limited partnerships. That change was carried out by way of the Legislative Reform (Limited Partnerships Order) 2009. However, some of the reforms concerning general partnership reform could be of benefit to Scottish businesses, and an effective means of executing these reforms could be through the Scottish Parliament legislating on these matters. Currently that is not possible, so this amendment would enable the Scottish Parliament to carry out the legislative changes that the Scottish Government may wish to consider and which are contained in the Law Commissions’ joint report. The Parliament should also have the freedom to create new forms of enterprise as listed in the amendment.

Amendment 60 would fully devolve the regulation of solicitors, no matter what function they performed, to the Scottish Parliament and allow the Parliament to make law for licensed providers under the Legal Services (Scotland) Act 2010 in the areas of immigration and asylum, insolvency practice or financial services. There is no provision that reserves the regulation of the Scottish legal professions. Nevertheless, in the Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Act 2007, which regulates,

“the making of complaints about legal services”,

it was provided that that Act did not apply to complaints about the provision of advice, legal services or activities relating to consumer credit, insolvency practitioners, financial services or immigration. This was because the Scottish Government took the view that the supervision of the legal profession when giving advice about these reserved matters or providing services was itself reserved, and was therefore a matter for the UK Parliament to regulate. In other words, the Scottish legal professions are regulated partly by the Scottish Government and partly by the UK Government, according to what advice or services they are providing.

In Section C3 there is an exception from the reservation of competition law that covers the regulation of the legal profession, but that exception applies only for the purposes of that section. The problem is that the provision of advice, legal services or activities relating to consumer credit, insolvency practitioners, financial services or immigration is considered to be reserved. Irrespective of whether this view is correct—the Minister and others may reflect different views on this—it is suggested that the Scottish Parliament should be able to regulate all aspects of the Scottish legal professions. That includes alternative business structures formed between solicitors and other professionals as licensed providers under the Legal Services (Scotland) Act 2010.

Finally, Amendment 61 deletes the reservation to the UK Parliament of regulating estate agents in Scotland under the Estate Agents Act 1979. Estate agency in Scotland works within the context of Scottish land law practice and conveyancing, which is, as we all know, different from the law applicable to other parts of the United Kingdom. Were estate agency in Scotland to be devolved, the Scottish Parliament would be able to make law relating to estate agents which would be more closely aligned to the Scottish legal system and the needs of consumers in Scotland, and which would allow the Parliament to legislate fully for licensed providers comprising estate agents under the Legal Services (Scotland) Act 2010. The inability of the Scottish Parliament to legislate in this area is a stumbling block to completion of the legislative framework for alternative business structures in Scotland.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Scotland Office (Lord Dunlop) (Con)]

The noble Lord, Lord Stephen, has spoken on a number of amendments which relate to the amendments put forward by the Law Society of Scotland. I echo what the noble Lord said about the role played by Michael Clancy and all his hard work. I can see that he is sitting in the Box this evening, and I met him last week to discuss these amendments.

Your Lordships will be aware that the context of this Bill is, as we have discussed many times, the implementation of the Smith commission agreement. The commission considered a range of areas for devolution, and the amendments spoken to this evening do not fall within the scope of that agreement. If noble Lords permit, I will briefly explain why, in addition to this, the Government do not support these amendments.

Principally, the UK Government are committed to ensuring that the UK is one of the best places to start up and run a business. To devolve legislative competence for the creation of new business entities or health and safety to the Scottish Parliament would add complexity and confusion to the business landscape in areas where we are already considered world-class. We are also committed to protecting consumers, and to devolve one aspect of the regulation of estate agents would lead to fragmentation of the approach across Great Britain. The Government consider that this would be ineffective and could harm consumers. We are striking the right balance of powers in the Bill while maintaining the strength and security and benefits for British business and for our consumers.

Amendment 59 would allow the Scottish Parliament to legislate for partnerships and unincorporated associations and allow the Scottish Parliament to create various new forms of enterprise in Scotland. The pressures that businesses face are generally the same throughout the UK and, therefore, when considering whether new business entities are appropriate, it is right that we should take a UK-wide view. It would not be right to have competing regimes of business regulations north and south of the border, and therefore I urge the noble Lord to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment 60 is unnecessary because regulation of the legal profession in Scotland is not a matter reserved by Schedule 5 to the Scotland Act 1998. However, the legal profession in Scotland advises on a diverse range of issues, including matters such as consumer protection, for which this Parliament retains responsibility for legislating. The Scottish Parliament does not have the legislative competence to make provision that relates to a reserved matter or modifies the law on reserved matters. This means that the Scottish Parliament cannot make provision specifically targeted, as the amendment proposes, at the regulation of insolvency practitioners, which is reserved by Section C2 of Schedule 5 to the Scotland Act 1998. Given this explanation, I urge the noble Lord not to press this amendment.

Finally, in addition to Amendment 61 being outside the scope of the Smith commission agreement, it is inappropriate. The Estate Agents Act 1979 is just one of the pieces of legislation that apply to the regulation of estate agents in order to protect consumers. Devolving this aspect of consumer protection policy while reserving other aspects, such as unfair and misleading practices, would lead to fragmentation of the approach across Great Britain. This would be ineffective and could harm consumers. Therefore, I urge the noble Lord to withdraw the amendment.

[Lord Stephen]

I thank the Minister for his response, although clearly he does not agree with me or with the Law Society of Scotland on this issue. He mentioned fragmentation. Another word for that is devolution. The same argument about areas that are considered to be world-class could apply equally strongly to health, education, transport or housing. I can see no inconsistency whatever in saying that throughout the United Kingdom we will have world-class health and world-class education but with differences—substantial differences in some cases—between the Scottish system and the system in other parts of the UK.

It seems to me that the point about business and partnerships was well taken by the Government of 1890 in this country, who made separate provision, as I said in my previous speech. Back in 1890 there was a Partnership Act—I am sure that the Minister will be able to get briefing on this in due course—that recognised the differences between Scotland and the rest of the UK, so what is being proposed here is in no way ground-breaking. It would be interesting to find out the colour of the Government back in 1890 when this measure was introduced, but it was long, long before the introduction of the new Scottish Parliament through the Scotland Act in 1999.

I also differ with the Minister in relation to going no further than, or implementing only, the Smith commission proposals. I think it is fair to say that that has been a pretty constant reference from the Government Front Bench. In quite a few respects the Government already have gone further—for example, the amendment in relation to abortion was not contained in the Smith commission report—so why not go further when it is a sensible measure, when it could be of advantage to Scottish consumers and Scottish business, and when it is something that is quite technical and detailed but has been given a lot of thought by the Law Society of Scotland and would make for sensible, better devolution?

I hope that the Minister might see sense and come back to us at the next stage with some amendments in this area but, for the moment, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment 59 withdrawn.