Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill

Lord Skelmersdale Excerpts

Monday 7th February 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Rooker]

I am happy not to move the amendment.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Skelmersdale)]

My Lords, either an amendment is moved or it is not. If it is not moved, the phrase is “not moved”. If words have been spoken—as they have been by the noble Lord, Lord Rooker—the amendment has been moved. That is why I called it.

[Lord Rooker]

In that case, I will move it, but obviously I will not press it. I fully accept that this must be brought into order, which cannot be done by inserting “may” in place of “must”. That is what the noble and learned Lord said. The evidence of that related to another issue, which was to do with the date. This may need a couple of hundred words from parliamentary counsel. I fully accept that while the two amendments are linked—I was questioned about this at the time; they should have been linked—this is not the solution. It does not solve the problem for the Government or parliamentary counsel. At some point, this has to be tidied up. I fully accept that Amendment 10B will not do this.

[The Deputy Speaker]

Amendment re-moved:

“Page 6, line 19, leave out ‘must’ and insert ‘may’”.

[Lord Wallace of Tankerness]

The amendment is re-moved but not removed—yet. I fully accept the spirit in which the noble Lord, Lord Rooker, re-moved it. As he recognises, this is not entirely consequential. We could get a turnout of 80 per cent and yet, with this change, we would still create a power rather than an obligation. I do not need to elaborate, as the point has been made. The Government cannot accept the amendment. In the spirit in which the noble Lord re-moved it, I ask him to withdraw it.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

It is customary, when a noble Lord accuses another Member of the House of being ignorant, to give them the opportunity to reply.

[The Deputy Speaker]

My Lords, it might be helpful to the House if I remind noble Lords that we are on Report.

[Lord Falconer of Thoroton]

I apologise. I was keen to find out the position of the Government in relation to this. What the Chief Whip said was unhelpful. It is important for the Government to state their position.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Davies of Stamford]

My Lords, this amendment has been very happily and felicitously overtaken by the House’s decision to adopt Amendment A1 in the name of my noble friend Lord Rooker. I think that it is possible to produce substantive arguments in favour of a threshold before a referendum comes into effect and it is possible to produce another set of arguments in favour of a threshold before a referendum becomes mandatory. However, I suspect that the whole House will be unanimous on this. It would not make any sense whatever to have two thresholds in relation to a referendum. Therefore, I have no intention whatever of asking the House to vote on this or of taking the matter further. I just want to make one comment.

Whatever the substantive arguments for the two types of threshold that I have just outlined, my noble friend Lord Rooker seems to have won the argument in favour of his approach and his amendment. The House of Commons has not yet pronounced on that. It has considered the approach, although not the actual figures, that I suggest for a threshold and it has rejected it. It is right that this House should be very conscious of the views of the elected House on a matter such as this. My noble friend Lord Rooker has come forward with a totally original idea. It was not considered in the other place or by anyone in this place before he ingeniously came forward with it. Therefore, it is with great pleasure that I say that my own amendment ought, in my view, to be eclipsed, overtaken and indeed buried by Amendment A1, and I have no intention of taking it any further.

[The Deputy Speaker]

My Lords, the Woolsack is confused. Amendment proposed—

[Lord Davies of Stamford]

Not moved.

[The Deputy Speaker]

No, my Lords. That is not on. Amendment proposed: in page 6, line 21, leave out paragraph (a) and insert the words printed in the Marshalled List.