Police and Crime Commissioners

Debate between Lord Sherbourne of Didsbury and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Monday 15th October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

First, I express my sympathy with the noble Lord—Parliament’s one and only PCC—regarding the number of times that his Benches stand up and criticise PCCs. I have been to Leicester, I have seen him in action, I have met his chief constable and I pay tribute to the work that they do. In terms of funding, the noble Lord will know that the Policing Minister visited every police force in England and Wales with regard to coming to a funding settlement for 2018-19. In addition, my right honourable friend the Home Secretary has recently said that he appreciates the pressures that the police are under, not least because of the things that they have had to deal with in the last 12 months.

[Lord Sherbourne of Didsbury (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend referred to the fact that PCCs can be held accountable, but does she not recognise the problem in the case of Wiltshire? After Operation Conifer, the chief constable moved to another area and the PCC is not standing for re-election. How, then, can the public make their views known?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I fully understand the sentiments expressed by both my noble friend and Members of the House on this issue in general. In terms of the chief constable, although I am not referring to this particular case, moving force does not of itself absolve someone from accountability for their actions. As I said, certainly the PCC who, is much more high-profile than local police authorities, can be held to account by his or her voters.

Police: Independent Inquiries

Debate between Lord Sherbourne of Didsbury and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Thursday 19th April 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sherbourne of Didsbury]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what criteria must be satisfied for them to establish an independent inquiry into a police investigation.

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, it is not possible to identify a definitive set of criteria to determine when the Government should establish an inquiry. Inquiries result from a huge variety of events, and each decision has to be taken on its merits.

[Lord Sherbourne of Didsbury (Con)]

Is my noble friend aware that the demand for an independent inquiry into the police investigation into Sir Edward Heath is not going to go away? Does she agree that the best thing would of course be for the Wiltshire police and crime commissioner to set up his own independent inquiry? This Tuesday, yet again, he refused point blank to do so. Is not the only option now for the Home Office to set up such an inquiry?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

As I said the other day, an inquiry of any form should be considered only where other available investigatory mechanisms would not be sufficient. I absolutely concur with this demand, which is repeatedly made from your Lordships’ House. My noble friend is correct that the Wiltshire PCC has it in his power to initiate such an inquiry.

Police and Crime Commissioners

Debate between Lord Sherbourne of Didsbury and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Thursday 1st March 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

My Lords, police and crime commissioners have brought local accountability to how chief constables and their forces perform, and work hard to ensure that their local communities have a stronger voice in policing. As the Home Affairs Select Committee recognised in its March 2016 report, PCCs are here to stay and their introduction has worked well.

[Lord Sherbourne of Didsbury (Con)]

Is my noble friend the Minister aware of what has prompted this Question, namely the Wiltshire Police investigation into Sir Edward Heath and the way in which it was conducted by the then chief constable, Mr Mike Veale? The police and crime commissioner has the power, and some would say the duty, to commission an independent inquiry but, for reasons I do not understand, he has set his face against doing so. Does this not make a mockery of the policy that chief constables are accountable—and should be seen to be accountable—to their commissioner? There really is a need for an independent inquiry.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I certainly understand why my noble friend has brought this Question forward today, and I understand the frustration felt by him and other noble Lords on this matter. A few noble Lords came to see me about this issue and I wrote to them outlining the position on it. I also wrote to the PCC of Wiltshire and I will outline the position again today. Under Section 79 of the Police Reform and Social Responsibility Act 2011, the Secretary of State has issued a policing protocol which PCCs and chief constables must have regard to when exercising their functions. This protocol provides scope for a PCC to commission an independent review into a force’s investigation to assist that PCC in their statutory duty of holding the chief constable to account. I could not have made the Government’s position on this clearer, and thank my noble friend for his Question.

Deceased Individuals: Allegations

Debate between Lord Sherbourne of Didsbury and Baroness Williams of Trafford

Monday 22nd January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I did not hear a question, but I agree with the noble Lord. He better puts the point that I was trying to make on the previous question—it may be in the interests of an investigation to name a person—but there is clear guidance on this.

[Lord Sherbourne of Didsbury (Con)]

My Lords, on the question of Operation Conifer, the investigation into Sir Edward Heath by Wiltshire Police, does my noble friend agree that there has been real public concern about the way that it has been conducted by Wiltshire Police and the chief constable of Wiltshire? What options are available for there to be an independent inquiry into the conduct of Wiltshire Police’s inquiry?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I certainly acknowledge the concern, and in terms of a public inquiry being set up, it would be for the chief constable, in discussion with the PCC, or indeed the PCC himself or herself, to set up an inquiry. I have written to the PCC to inform him of this. I hope that I have clarified the situation on the process for an inquiry.